11 replies to this topic

[Green-Buckshot]

Do you think older guns are better?

Yes [ 34 ] ** [39.08%]
No [ 2 ] ** [2.30%]
Depends [ 51 ] ** [58.62%]
Total Votes: 87

WTB: LnL. WTB: SM 1.5K. WTB: Bow and Arrow.

You hear these things all over the forums. Stuff about, "What you'd do to get your hands on..." Whether you're talking about something as old as the Crossbow or as recent as a SuperMaxxx 5000. The thing is, I hardly ever hear anyone mention how they'd ring someone's neck for a NiteFinder, or how they'd maim someone for a MagStrike. I understand that part of this has something to do with the rarity of certain guns. For instance, although there are guns that can hit ranges above or equal to the CrossBow, showing up with a Crossbow in your arsenal says certain things about you. It may say that you've been into NERF for a while. It may say you have classy taste. But other than that, why spend the extra money?

The fact of the matter is, showing up with a newer gun that shoots equal or greater distance than a CrossBow < showing up with a CrossBow.

Why?

It seems the general consensus among some of the community is that the new guns "suck" and the old guns "pwn". The thing is, that isn't true. Hasbro is churning out just as many decent guns as it used to. My NiteFinder can shoot just as far as a Lock 'n' Load. A Titan can get ranges greater than a CrossBow. And yet it seems that a good portion of people have closed their eyes to these facts. Sure, NERF had some really innovative guns that you just can't equal anymore. I just shelled out 20$ for a SharpShooter II. But that was because the SSII matched my needs, and Hasbro isn't making plunger-powered, one-at-a-time, instant switch barrel guns. The thing is, even though there may still be things on the market to match your needs, people still gravitate to older guns.

Once again, Why? If you don't need an older gun, there's no shame in a newer arsenal. Sure, some of the new guns are complete flops, but if Hasbro doesn't experiment, the guns aren't getting any better. So I propose this: Go out to your local NERF carrying store, and by a gun. Doesn't matter what gun. Go home and mod it. I guarantee, that the gun will equal the ranges of one of the older guns, modded or unmodded. So why not sponsor the company that gave us NERF guns to begin with? This way, they keep churning out guns, and we can keep churning out mods. Who knows? The next "CrossBow" could be right around the corner, and we wouldn't even know it...

What's your favorite brand?

NERF [ 33 ] ** [82.50%]
Lanard [ 4 ] ** [10.00%]
Buzz Bee [ 1 ] ** [2.50%]
Mattel [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Other [ 2 ] ** [5.00%]
Total Votes: 40

Does everybody remember when news of the Recon CS-6 first reached our ears? The buzz, the excitement. The overwhelming thoughts of, "OH!! This will be great!" Then the completely underwhelming ranges and modding possibilities? I do. It seems to me that the some of the best mods these days are coming from off-brand guns. The Longshot CS-6 and the Recon CS-6 both seemed to offer ranges they couldn't deliver, while guns like the Lanard Max-Shot, which is half the size of a Longshot CS-6, can deliver a single dart 100 feet? Guns like the Buzz Bee Laser-Tek are cheap and easy to mod, while providing ranges comparable or better than their NERF cousins. I remember walking down the NERF aisle seeing all these rip-off guns, buying a NERF, and being ultimately satisfied. Now, I double and triple check, asking myself, "Why get the Titan when the Buzz Bee Big Blast is more compact and easier to mod?" Nowadays, I find myself buying more off brand than not. I can only surmise a few reasons for this recent trend:

1. NERF guns are more expensive
2. NERF is supplying looks over effectiveness
3. NERF is being geared toward a different market

Now, 2 & 3 kind of go together, and I'll explain why. Despite having a feminist mother, she realized boys and girls were different, and so she would take me to Toys 'R' Us and, although she doesn't like guns, reluctantly buy me a NERF gun. It wasn't really violent, it was just fun. But the NERF guns I remember were different. The didn't look anything like real guns, even when painted. They were bright and colourful and oddly shaped and fun. The thing is, today's target market of kids isn't looking for innovative, oddly-shaped fun. They want real, tactical simulations. They want to make believe someone's head is exploding. This is creating the "need" for more realistic looking weapons, even at the risk of being effective. I'm not going to say I never thought of a head exploding as a kid, but I thought of it a whole lot less than some kids today. I'm not going to blame this new trend in violence on anyone either, I am simply sharing that it exists.
With the release of the Vulcan, I am now gearing up to be let down. That's not to say I wish for it to fail, far from it. But I fear that NERF may have once again chosen looks over function, and is now producing a semi-realistic gattling gun for kids. Would I like to see the Vulcan beat our expectations and trounce our speculations? Hell yes. Do I think it's going to happen? Hell no. From here it looks gimmicky and bulky. I would much rather see what new guns Lanard has coming, or Buzz Bee, but until NERF shapes up and starts producing some really good guns again, I have little hopes.


Note: I know some of the opinions in this contradict with what I said in my previous article. I am not denying this. I still think NERF guns are the best, but after the Recon CS-6, I'd really like to see a decent gun again. That's not to say all of the guns being produced suck, that's simply to say that the bigger ones generally do.

Well, my last two essays have had generally pessimistic feels to them, but the truth of the matter is, the future of NERF actually provides me with a lot of optimism. Right now, the current NERF scene is in a sad state because of the type of toys kids want and how NERF is providing them. I said this in my last essay, but here's something I want you to think about:

The current generation of NERFers is obsessed with realistic looking projectile weapons and war games, and so NERF is going for realism rather than usefulness. But here's the catch:

Because kids want a war simulation, they're eventually going to get sick of bad ranges.

You heard me. After thinking long and hard, I believe that current generation may lead to some of the coolest NERF guns yet. These kids are looking for realistic guns, and while what NERF is churning out looks realistic, it doesn't play realistic. Sooner or later, the target market is going to want decent ranges AND realistic weapons. What does this mean for current NERFers? It means we're approaching a crossroad in which visuals and performance are equal in the eyes of the company. Kids love the way the Scout IX-3 looks, but hate the way it fires. To keep kids interested, NERF is going to have to come out with a SECOND Scout IX-3, or whatever gun, only improve on it so kids can play their wargames. Do you understand the meaning of that? I feel that the next generation of NERF guns may look back on ideas like the LnL mechanism to keep kids interested. They're going to need to recycle the older, sometimes better ideas, and merge them with the current visual demographic. I have found my hope, people.

On top of that, if the demographic turns towards non-NERF companies to supply them with guns, then it will give NERF the need to step it up. This will lead to potentially fierce wars between the companies, resulting in some of the most innovative and useful guns in recent memory. NERF and these companies will fight and keep fighting until one of them makes a gun that the target market favors best. And we will be left with some of the greatest foam-weaponry ever created.


By: GreenB

PS: Yes, it is a short essay, but I felt I should leave on a positive note.

[keef]

Only the modders and tinkerers care about longer ranges.

All of the other kids just play with friends or there parents because they are like, 11 and younger. So they don't care- its bonding.

[Maeric]

So, Your saying that eventually, theres going to be some 10 year-old sitting on a hill a mile away, and hits me? i don't think so. Even though this may be a drastic exaggeration, the kids don't care all that much for ranges, the just pick the best gun outa the group and use that. I don't think Nerf has to worry about one-upping the competition either.

[ompa]

As much as I wish diappointed kids would lead to an increase in ranges, I just don't think that'll happen. Nerf has to comply with safety regulations, which pretty much limit the range the guns can fire to begin with. Now, unless the engineers at Hasbro are in a good mood and decide to grace us with a miracle gun, I don't see any reason why they would even bother making a gun with a large plunger shaft with a ton of restriction just so it's safe; it would be easier just to make a smaller plunger shaft to begin with.

~ompa

[Salmon]

Only the modders and tinkerers care about longer ranges.

All of the other kids just play with friends or there parents because they are like, 11 and younger. So they don't care- its bonding.

I disagree, Keef. I have been asked by many a fifth grader at my school to modify their Nerf guns for them. I talk to them and hear things like they love the Maverick because of its realisticness, but are disappointed by its sad 20-30 foot range. I think that, especially with the sudden incoming of lame-duck guns like the Recon, which is similar looking to a small machine gun, but has poor ranges, Nerf will gradually increase the power and ranges of their guns. I personally hope that Nerf will start making guns like the Splitfire or SuperMAXX series again, but with more realistic shells. Maybe a Splitfire-like mechanism in a shotgun body? They don't have a shotgun-like Nerf gun yet, I don't believe, (save the Reactor, ). Nerf will, of course, not remove such safety features as the over-pressure release valve or the air restrictor, but will likely start adding more powerful springs or bigger air tanks to their guns. Great essay, once again, Buckshot.

[Forsaken angel24]

When I was young I hated my sawtooth because of its garbage range. I also loved my arrowstorm to death because it shot so far and accurate. I used to line up Gi-joes on the railing and pick them off oen by one using it. Kids do like toys that shoot farther.

[Green-Buckshot]

I'm not saying kids will want guns that shoot a mile away. All I'm saying is that even smaller children get disappointed when their guns barely hit 15 feet. This will lead to a decline in sales, and at the point NERF will either shape up or go bankrupt. I pray they do the intelligent thing and keep producing the realistic-esque guns only with modified plunger assemblies so they get some distance. These would sell.

[Captain]

You state some valid points, GreenBuckshot. I think that the vulcan, (with all it's publicity in magazines and internet articles) will convince more consumers than ever before to buy nerf guns. Just about every article about the vulcan on the internet said that they (whoever wrote the article) was going to get one. I really think that the vulcan will cause an explosion of business, and nerf will need to make more guns. And all will be well.

[NerfMonkey]

I'm not saying kids will want guns that shoot a mile away. All I'm saying is that even smaller children get disappointed when their guns barely hit 15 feet. This will lead to a decline in sales, and at the point NERF will either shape up or go bankrupt. I pray they do the intelligent thing and keep producing the realistic-esque guns only with modified plunger assemblies so they get some distance. These would sell.

Do you know how many kids in the main age group Hasbro is targeting actually research these guns and then buy them based on their ranges? Or for that matter, how many kids actually buy the guns on their own? When I was younger I never bought a single Nerf gun; they were all given to me as gifts on Christmases and birthdays by my parents or other family members. It's true that most children would prefer a more powerful gun over a weaker one, but the fact is that parents and grandparents are still going to buy their kids and grandkids Nerf guns because they look cool and shoot "bullets." They don't give a shit about the range, and neither do little kids as long as they can shoot things and people with them. There are exceptions to this but I didn't care, and neither did my brother, about how far our Nerf guns went. We were just happy to be able to run around the house and shoot each other with them.

People seem to forget that very few children buy Nerf guns with their own money, or even pick out which ones to buy. Small children do not go on the internet and research guns which they could potentially buy and then pick which ones based on their power. They see one in the toy store, ask their parents to buy it for them and take it home and shoot pop cans with it, or they get it as a gift and don't even bother to see what the name of it is before taking it out and playing with it.

Also, when you compare any two stock guns there isn't really a noticeable difference in range. The Scout gets good range for a stock gun, probably about the same range as a Nite Finder or an RF20. Even compared to "old" guns that fired megas, there isn't much of a difference. So, even if your logic was true, it wouldn't matter because all stock Nerf guns are essentially the same in terms of range. I can say with 99% certainty that Hasbro isn't going to waste money on making more powerful guns, just because of bunch of 8-year-olds are whining that they don't shoot far enough. As nice as it is that you're exhibiting intelligence and thought, I have to disagree with you.

EDIT: I also don't really like the title you gave this. Nerf isn't in a period of stagnancy, so there is no need for a "rebirth." Go to a Nerf war where people are using guns generally considered shitty (and doing well with them) and you'll see what I mean.

Edited by NerfMonkey, 19 April 2008 - 06:37 PM.

[CaptainSlug]

First of, stop trying to present your opinions as fact.
Nerf already went through a kind of rebirth 2 years ago.
Also, you should stop having wet dreams about Hasbro offering any kind of product in the future that will be made specifically for the Nerf Internet Community.

The fact of the matter is, showing up with a newer gun that shoots equal or greater distance than a CrossBow < showing up with a CrossBow.

The problem with this statement is there are no newer or just currently available spring guns that shoot as far as the original Crossbow. This is why I had to design the +Bow.

It seems the general consensus among some of the community is that the new guns "suck" and the old guns "pwn". The thing is, that isn't true.

Consensus doesn't have to be true. Consensus is shared opinion.

A Titan can get ranges greater than a CrossBow. And yet it seems that a good portion of people have closed their eyes to these facts.

The Titan is also much heavier, is a pneumatic gun not a springer, is considerably bulkier, and has a horribly inefficient pump. To shoot 100 feet with a Titan you have to pump it 8 or 9 times.
The Titan is also disallowed from use at most wars due to its abuse as a somewhat dangerous long range high pressure blaster.
A Big Blast might be a slightly better comparison, but still it is a pneumatic. Besides having to cycle the pump 5 times, it's also just not as reliable or comfortable as a Crossbow.

Your statements are making it fairly obvious that you have never owned or used a Crossbow. And have also not attended enough wars to understand what blasters we like or why we like them.

So why not sponsor the company that gave us NERF guns to begin with?

Nerf brand sales went up 249% in 2006. This is not because of us, but because of the massive popularity of the N-strike line.

What is good for Hasbro is not going to be the same as what is good for us. The direction the Nerf brand is going in right now is towards much more complicated and gimmicky products. It's primarily the gimmicks that are selling these newer offerings, not the performance or usability.
These products are not good for war use because they have poor performance compared to both older blasters and much simpler offbrand offerings.

NERF is being geared toward a different market

No it's not. They're simply getting better at tailoring the products to match the desires of the changes within that target market. I haven't been in their target market since I turned 13.

WE DO NOT DEFINE THE NERF BRAND. We also do not make up a significant portion of their gross sales, so they are not going to be offering any products specifically because it is what we would find useful. Even if/when they expand into the "Office Strike" line they have teased about in press releases, those products will also not be geared towards us in anyway.

They do occasionally offer some products that are very useful for our niche application, but those products are in the minority right now. And likely will be for some time.

while what NERF is churning out looks realistic, it doesn't play realistic

Please explain to me what about a Nerf War could logically be considered realistic? THERE IS NOTHING REALISTIC ABOUT A NERF WAR. End of story.

Also, it's a been a while, but I'm pretty sure most of childhood is about IMAGINATION. While kids may be disappointed with how short of a distance their Nerf gun is shooting, that's not stopping them from buying them in significant quantities.
Under intended use of the product itself (primarily playing indoors to shoot their siblings, pets, toys) they have no reason to NEED the blaster to shoot more than 40 feet.
I wouldn't really want most of the target market of Nerf (6 to 12 year olds) participating in real Nerf Wars anyways.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 19 April 2008 - 07:31 PM.

[baghead]

First of, stop trying to present your opinions as fact.
Nerf already went through a kind of rebirth 2 years ago.
Also, you should stop having wet dreams about Hasbro offering any kind of product in the future that will be made specifically for the Nerf Internet Community.

...

WE DO NOT DEFINE THE NERF BRAND. We also do not make up a significant portion of their gross sales, so they are not going to be offering any products specifically because it is what we would find useful. Even if/when they expand into the "Office Strike" line they have teased about in press releases, those products will also not be geared towards us in anyway.

They do occasionally offer some products that are very useful for our niche application, but those products are in the minority right now. And likely will be for some time.

while what NERF is churning out looks realistic, it doesn't play realistic

Please explain to me what about a Nerf War could logically be considered realistic? THERE IS NOTHING REALISTIC ABOUT A NERF WAR. End of story.

Also, it's a been a while, but I'm pretty sure most of childhood is about IMAGINATION. While kids may be disappointed with how short of a distance their Nerf gun is shooting, that's not stopping them from buying them in significant quantities.
Under intended use of the product itself (primarily playing indoors to shoot their siblings, pets, toys) they have no reason to NEED the blaster to shoot more than 40 feet.
I wouldn't really want most of the target market of Nerf (6 to 12 year olds) participating in real Nerf Wars anyways.

^ Preach on Brother.


seriously... Buckshot, the more I read your musings I find it harder to believe that you've actually been nerfing since 2006

Edited by baghead, 19 April 2008 - 07:47 PM.

[King Of Butt Land]

Bitch got told.