47 replies to this topic

[three Chord me]

ompa, on Apr 19 2008, 02:15 AM, said:

Come on man, you were doing a good job. The use of capitalization and punctuation would be appreciated.

And keep in mind these people have been doing this for a while; they probably found out that autos were brutally effective, so much so that they should be "unlocked". This isn't a thread about theories, this is something that has already been in place, so it can be assumed things are done for a reason.

~ompa

sorry about the grammar issues. : [
Anyways I guess my tone was really bad in my previous post. What i meant was to point out that just because the game starts out slowly it does not mean it will not work.
I help run the game here at Maryland (been doing it for 2 years) and our games start off really slow the fist 2 days. I think that maybe they are attributing that too much to "autos" rather than to exponential growth though this all depends on the amount of players they have and the tactics that zombies are willing to employ.
since this thread should be about the article and not humans v zombies tactics i will not go into any further details about that sort of thing

Edited by three Chord me, 19 April 2008 - 01:20 AM.

[Squishy]

Most people tend not to carry around autos because of the long prime time and when your adrenaline is kicking in when your group is surrounded by 20 zombies, it's hard enough to load one dart without dropping it, let alone 20. In addition, for certain blasters (RF20) you can't run with it and expect darts to not fall out. And you will run. Occasionally some kid will carry one in a pack for special situations, but most of the time sustained RoF is much more desirable. Autos are simply inefficient for defense, and I have not known anyone to be able to fend off zombies better because of having an automatic rather than a decent semi. We instead reward players with more safe zones and longer stun times for certain situations. I honestly can say that unless everyone traded in their longshot and maverick(yes I know, mavericks are only good for bookends, cept in HvZ) for a Magstrike with an airtank, then we wouldn't see a large difference in the outcomes. See, people with more shot capacity in a stressful situation will use more shots, resulting in less 'kills' before the zombies see a reload and bum rush them. I used to use my Wildfire until I realized about 1/5th of the shots fell out if I started to flat out run, negating my ability for reliable burst fire, the reload time took about 3 times as long as I could effectively hold zombies off for, and reloading required cover from someone else. In addition, if the zombies see you have 1/4th of a drum left, (which is easy to do for the RF20, they would all just rush because they knew I could only take out a couple. The magstrike would be better, but still presents low overall RoF problems. Believe it or not, I'd rather have a crummy maverick than a RF20 for the majority of the game. Terrible, I know.

Also, Temkin and the way Goucher in general handled HvZ was very very good for everyone. As the president, it is my job to not let anyone screw up. But there will always be some kid who just got too much into it. I am happy that someone realized that trading liberties for a false feeling of safety is unacceptable.

Edited by Squishy, 19 April 2008 - 04:11 AM.

[Heartw0rk]

Squishy, on Apr 19 2008, 12:52 AM, said:

Autos are simply inefficient for defense, and I have not known anyone to be able to fend off zombies better because of having an automatic rather than a decent semi.

Man, when it's come down to late-game missions they've been bread and butter for humans. Sure you have to be careful when you run so ammo doesn't fall out, but most of the kids using autos are careful enough.

Quote

Also, Temkin and the way Goucher in general handled HvZ was very very good for everyone. As the president, it is my job to not let anyone screw up. But there will always be some kid who just got too much into it. I am happy that someone realized that trading liberties for a false feeling of safety is unacceptable.

Max has done an amazing job, and ditto with the other mods.

Our college president even played a brief NPC role early on in this game!

[three Chord me]

Heartw0rk, on Apr 19 2008, 11:34 AM, said:

Squishy, on Apr 19 2008, 12:52 AM, said:

Autos are simply inefficient for defense, and I have not known anyone to be able to fend off zombies better because of having an automatic rather than a decent semi.

Man, when it's come down to late-game missions they've been bread and butter for humans. Sure you have to be careful when you run so ammo doesn't fall out, but most of the kids using autos are careful enough.

how many people play in your game? this might be the difference...

[Demon Lord]

Awesome article, here at Northern Illinois University we're doing something similiar, however we've got a video documentary going of the game and there are some WILD moments.

Modding wise I'm the one in charge of the mods allowed and for the most part modding really isn't as big of a factor as one might think, not that that has stopped people from doing it. We just don't things taken to the extremes as seen in full Nerf events as they aren't needed when the person you're shooting at only has a range of 3 feet or so. We allow special stefans (the foam tipped kind) and certain weapons can only run certain types of ammo for safety reasons.

More info and forums can be found at www.niuzombie.com

[Flaming Hilt]

I just visited the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, WA, and they were amidst a HvZ game for charity. $5 entrance fee... pretty cool.

90% sure I'll be going there, although for other reasons besides Nerf. : o)

Edited by Flaming Hilt, 19 April 2008 - 09:59 PM.

[ultra920]

Cool. Hopefully it will get more popularity.

While the opponents acknowledged the game's benefits, they criticized its representation of killing and violence. Jenifer Jennings-Shaud, a member of the graduate education faculty, spoke of arriving on campus one evening and seeing a man with a gun run over the hill. "I was terrified," she said. "Guns scare me. Nerf guns, regular guns. All guns." Then she began to cry.pansy,it shoots foam peanuts. get a life English professor Jeff Myers raised questions about the ethics of "playing war" while an actual war is happening in Iraq. Peace studies instructor Fran Donelan theorized about the possible link between fantasy violence and actual violence. "There have been many studies done about how a society's games reflect the society," she said. "Most of the games in this country revolve around hunting people down and killing them.Thats America. Fucking live with it.

Comments in red.

[eddieoctane]

ultra920, on Apr 20 2008, 07:30 PM, said:

Peace studies instructor Fran Donelan theorized about the possible link between fantasy violence and actual violence. "There have been many studies done about how a society's games reflect the society," she said. "Most of the games in this country revolve around hunting people down and killing them.

Oddly enough, as sales of violent media increase, violent crimes perpetrated by the target audience of said media have gone down. You'd think a "peace studies instructor" (is she not good enough to qualify as a professor?) would be aware of the overwhelming statistic.

[Heartw0rk]

ultra920, on Apr 20 2008, 03:30 PM, said:

Jenifer Jennings-Shaud, a member of the graduate education faculty, spoke of arriving on campus one evening and seeing a man with a gun run over the hill. "I was terrified," she said. "Guns scare me. Nerf guns, regular guns. All guns." Then she began to cry.pansy,it shoots foam peanuts. get a life

I actually think that she's being perfectly valid. She grew up in a warzone, in fact. The thing is, we play the game for less than a week, and once a semester. If it were a weekly thing, the situation would be different.

Edited by Heartw0rk, 21 April 2008 - 12:05 AM.

[z80]

Heartw0rk, on Apr 20 2008, 09:04 PM, said:

ultra920, on Apr 20 2008, 03:30 PM, said:

Jenifer Jennings-Shaud, a member of the graduate education faculty, spoke of arriving on campus one evening and seeing a man with a gun run over the hill. "I was terrified," she said. "Guns scare me. Nerf guns, regular guns. All guns." Then she began to cry.pansy,it shoots foam peanuts. get a life

I actually think that she's being perfectly valid. She grew up in a warzone, in fact. The thing is, we play the game for less than a week, and once a semester. If it were a weekly thing, the situation would be different.

Yeah, Heartw0rk does have a valid point. Its really the fact that it is her comfort against a lot of other people. You have to strike a balance between the groups.

Edited by z80, 21 April 2008 - 08:10 AM.

[ultra920]

Heartw0rk, on Apr 21 2008, 01:04 AM, said:

ultra920, on Apr 20 2008, 03:30 PM, said:

Jenifer Jennings-Shaud, a member of the graduate education faculty, spoke of arriving on campus one evening and seeing a man with a gun run over the hill. "I was terrified," she said. "Guns scare me. Nerf guns, regular guns. All guns." Then she began to cry.pansy,it shoots foam peanuts. get a life

I actually think that she's being perfectly valid. She grew up in a warzone, in fact. The thing is, we play the game for less than a week, and once a semester. If it were a weekly thing, the situation would be different.

My grandmother grew up during WW2 in germany. All sorts of stuff happend. Nerf guns? She likes them and dosen't have a problem.

[imaseoulman]

I've never fully understood how the whole "Humans Vs. Zombies" thing worked, but I like it. This seems almost better than assassins (I know they are two completely different games, but given the choice of sneaking around and leading platoons, I'd take the latter).

It was funny how the maverick was the "bread and butter," but this is a very different style of play than a NERF war. In this setting, I would probably rely heavily upon the maverick and possibly the DTB. I think the MS might be too big, but it would be pretty fun to use as well.

Has anybody tried smaller versions of this at a large scale (20-40 people) NERF war? It could be interesting.

[three Chord me]

imaseoulman, on Apr 21 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

I've never fully understood how the whole "Humans Vs. Zombies" thing worked, but I like it. This seems almost better than assassins (I know they are two completely different games, but given the choice of sneaking around and leading platoons, I'd take the latter).

It was funny how the maverick was the "bread and butter," but this is a very different style of play than a NERF war. In this setting, I would probably rely heavily upon the maverick and possibly the DTB. I think the MS might be too big, but it would be pretty fun to use as well.

Has anybody tried smaller versions of this at a large scale (20-40 people) NERF war? It could be interesting.

We ran a small scale version of HvZ at the umd dart of war earlier this year.
It went pretty well

[Galaxy613]

HvZ seems alot different then normal wars, because battles can happen anywhere on the campus, at any time. You almost should walk around with a nerf gun to every class you goto. Sounds much more interesting then normal nerf wars because you can't go out that door, because theres zombies out there, you'll have to take a detour.

Edited by Galaxy613, 21 April 2008 - 12:26 PM.

[DX-Robert]

Wow I haven't been on here for a while...

Anyway, there's a round of HvZ currently in progress at Conn College. There are 80 players this round. I didn't play in our first round, but I did see how crazy it became toward the end. There were some big fights when zombies camped the doors to academic buildings and the humans inside called in backup.

As Galaxy613 pointed out, these games are really intense. The human paranoia effect is really cool - I leave my dorm only through the side door and enter only having spent a good minute making sure there's no ambush. You really do alter your walking habits and eating habits. At Conn, we also have missions at night, which usually succeed or fail based on how many humans arrive and if the zombies are tipped off as to where the starting point is. I bring my Tech Target and Sharpshooter II into classes, though in a bag since such buildings are safe zones and professors would probably rather not see the guns hehe.

[eddieoctane]

Could you get away with a shoulder holster underneath a jacket? I know I can fit a Scout or 2 in the inside pockets of my leather jacket, and the thing is bulky enough for no one to notice. And central Pa is cold enough in October for a jacket to look normal.

[Galaxy613]

eddieoctane, on Apr 21 2008, 06:24 PM, said:

Could you get away with a shoulder holster underneath a jacket? I know I can fit a Scout or 2 in the inside pockets of my leather jacket, and the thing is bulky enough for no one to notice. And central Pa is cold enough in October for a jacket to look normal.

That'll definetly be a concealed 'firearm'/weapon, which would depend on your state's laws on such things.

You'll probably be ok with a leg holster, but you'll probably get weird looks.

Edited by Galaxy613, 21 April 2008 - 05:41 PM.

[Nonsense Man]

Wow I really like the white longshot with the blood splatter. I wish a college near me had stuff like this but sadly I live in Florida the Nerf wastelands.

[Squishy]

Galaxy613, on Apr 21 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

That'll definetly be a concealed 'firearm'/weapon, which would depend on your state's laws on such things.

No it won't be. Technically it's not illegal, these aren't weapons. We do like to keep the game and academics very seperate, however. You need to advise players about coloring blasters and not carrying them threateningly or the like. The more waves you make the less likely the game will see the light of day again.

[eddieoctane]

Squishy, on Apr 21 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

Galaxy613, on Apr 21 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

That'll definetly be a concealed 'firearm'/weapon, which would depend on your state's laws on such things.

No it won't be. Technically it's not illegal, these aren't weapons. We do like to keep the game and academics very seperate, however. You need to advise players about coloring blasters and not carrying them threateningly or the like. The more waves you make the less likely the game will see the light of day again.

If you hold up a 7-11 with a super soaker, it counts as a firearms violation. So the weapon bit is purely circumstantial with toys. If you don't brandish them as guns at inappropriate times, they aren't guns. That much I know. What I'm not sure about is the legality of sticking a small gun in your pocket and not pulling it out until you are about to enter zombie territory.

[three Chord me]

eddieoctane, on Apr 22 2008, 07:12 PM, said:

Squishy, on Apr 21 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

Galaxy613, on Apr 21 2008, 06:40 PM, said:

That'll definetly be a concealed 'firearm'/weapon, which would depend on your state's laws on such things.

No it won't be. Technically it's not illegal, these aren't weapons. We do like to keep the game and academics very seperate, however. You need to advise players about coloring blasters and not carrying them threateningly or the like. The more waves you make the less likely the game will see the light of day again.

If you hold up a 7-11 with a super soaker, it counts as a firearms violation. So the weapon bit is purely circumstantial with toys. If you don't brandish them as guns at inappropriate times, they aren't guns. That much I know. What I'm not sure about is the legality of sticking a small gun in your pocket and not pulling it out until you are about to enter zombie territory.

That part really does depend on what state you are in, and whether or not the police know about the game before hand. Regardless of this always always always contact the police well in advanced of planning any HvZ game.

[Galaxy613]

Sort of like airsofting but actually being able to play in public view.

[Omega]

Wow. Goucher be craaaaaazy.


That English professor pissed me off. "I hate guns. Real guns, Nerf guns. All guns." She started crying? This is why we don't trust liberals with national security, dammit!