18 replies to this topic

[Quilan Fett]

I am planning to build a spring powered pistol similar to Boltsniper's NTS. First off, I should say that I am in no way doubting Bolt's ranges. It has a breech, yet it beats all the other pistols I have seen (rangewise, that is). I PM'ed Bolt to ask him what spring he used, but I guess he is no longer active. Does anyone know what makes it so special?

To save you some time:
NTS
GNS
SNAP 4m
MPSP

[sam]

He used part of an AR-15 spring. I would look at the GNS and compare them to the NTS to see what gave him the increase in power.
Here are two links that provide more detail than the NH links:
NTS
GNS

Edited by sam, 08 April 2008 - 07:23 PM.

[ompa]

First off, in comparison to the other guns, the NTS has a a plunger/plunger-tube seal that is very good, meaning he has no air loss there. I'm not saying the Snap and Mpsp do not, but it's my opinion that the o-ring seal is a bit better; take it for what it's worth. Although I will agree that the Snap/Mpsp method of making a plunger is far, far easier. Second, the NTS has a lightened plunger, allowing it to achieve faster velocities than the other three guns, meaning more range. Third, it's possible that the AR-15 spring is just more powerful. That I cannot attest to, but it may possibly be a factor.

Keep in mind I'm not ripping on the SNAP series at all. It's an incredible gun for the performance/ease of production ratio, and Carbon definitely opened up the homemade springer field immensely with the introduction of the SNAP.

~ompa

[CaptainSlug]

AR-15 springs are crazy powerful. That's the bulk of it.

[baghead]

AR-15 springs are crazy powerful. That's the bulk of it.

not to mention that they're pretty much the Ultimate nerf replacement spring. They work great for both mods and homemades.

Edited by baghead, 08 April 2008 - 08:52 PM.

[Carbon]

The SNAP seal is most effective when the plunger head and chamber are fairly close in size. A .5" endcap rattles around a bit more in 1" thinwall than in 1.25"/.75", so the seal isn't quite as good (It's an area I need to improve on). That, and the plunger is quite bulky. No offense taken, it is what it is.

By the way...good to see you back, Ompa.

[ompa]

Great to see you still around. I was hoping to see some familiar faces when I got back. But wow, you guys have progressed so far with your homemades. I have a ways to go to catch up to the likes of you guys in terms of homemade contributions. I've definitely been slacking.

~ompa

[Thom]

ERROR: Core dump.
REASON: Awesomeness overflow exception at line 1337.

[Thom]

On a more serious note, I have a question about the NTS. Is there any reason why the magazine must be limited to five darts? I don't see why one couldn't make, say, a ten-shot magazine, maybe removable. Of course, it would require some modification, but that basically goes without saying around here. Is there some major point I'm missing, or is it just a matter of some adaptation of the mag?

[ompa]

I don't think there is any particular reasoning other than the fact that Boltsniper wanted to make it a 5-shot clip.

Plus, it's probably easier to store in a pocket or something the way he has it now, instead of with a bulkier clip.

~ompa

[Thom]

I don't think there is any particular reasoning other than the fact that Boltsniper wanted to make it a 5-shot clip.

Plus, it's probably easier to store in a pocket or something the way he has it now, instead of with a bulkier clip.

~ompa

Makes sense. I'm speculating about basing a homemade on the NTS this summer. I think the TEC-9 look would be quite functional.

[Thom]

Ompa, how did you end up solving the catch face problem from the BS-9? I've been doing some research, and I saw your MEG, but I can't quite tell how it was done.

I'm thinking of starting from the BS-9 and upsizing it, aiming for an overall length of ~14" – much smaller than a SCAR (28"), but allowing for a larger barrel and plunger tube.

[ompa]

I used a symmetrical catch face with my plunger, allowing the plunger to be just a tad bit larger than the spring when it was compressed, allowing for a large draw length relative to the total length of the gun when primed. The catch face itself in both my pistol and rifle are both washers. As the washers go into the coupler at the back, the beveled edge pushes down the catch pin, and the catch pin comes back up after the washer face has passed, allowing the pin to catch at the face of the washer.

Here is a picture of the plunger style I ended up using.

~ompa

[Thom]

I've been looking at the NTS and the SCAR-N. The NTS is a third the size, yet gets almost the same ranges. To make a long question short, why? Do the shells hinder performance? Is the NTS breach better? Is it just a matter of packing parts in more efficiently? It seems to me that, based on the performance of the NTS, I could easily meet or surpass the SCAR-N in 14 inches, which doesn't make sense unless there's some other major difference.

[ompa]

I would assume efficiency. The plunger on the SCAR-N is much heavier, and appears to contact the containing pvc at many more points. Also, the bolt system on the SCAR-N is far more complicated, and probably has a few more areas where air loss can occur. I know when me and Boltsniper were talking about the the brass bolt we both ended up with really good results using it for the first time, probably due to the much better seal we both got.

~ompa

[Thom]

That gives me another thought. What about combining the form factor and internal space of the SCAR-N with the improvements from the NTS design? Admittedly, it does seem a rather ambitious project to embark upon at 4 AM local time.

[ompa]

Definitely do-able; it's similar to what I attempted with my rifle. A few problems here and there hindered the performance of the gun though. I was going to remake the thing, but with the ranges the LS is getting with a bolt replacement and new spring, I don't see much of a point to homemade springers anymore.

~ompa

[Carbon]

I was going to remake the thing, but with the ranges the LS is getting with a bolt replacement and new spring, I don't see much of a point to homemade springers anymore.

Perhaps you mean clip-fed homemades? A bolt replacement is relatively difficult, and even then, most people have been reporting only middling accuracy with the LS.

[ompa]

Yeah, I meant clip-fed homemades. The thing is, a bolt replacement is still a heck of a lot easier than making an entire gun from scratch.

And I think the source of inaccuracy with the LS is the issues involving finding a proper way to get the barrel and bolt to play nicely. Of course, seeing as I have yet to mod mine (no materials), I shouldn't be talking quite yet. However, I should have my LS done by DCNO, so the participants should be able to vouch for whether or not my soon-to-be-modded LS is accurate or not.

~ompa