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Vinyl Dye Question


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#1 Salmon

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Posted 04 April 2008 - 07:45 PM

I recently aquired a Crossbow, and I gave it a black-and-red paintjob similar to Kulshcrank's Claudia II. I painted the shell Krylon Fusion Satin Black with one coat, and hasn't chipped at all yet, and the trigger, plunger tube and plunger rod Krylon Fusion Red with god-knows-how-many coats. The red pieces, particularly the plunger rod, keep on chipping, and chipping, and chipping, and chipping no matter how many coats I put on or how long I let it dry! I have heard Vinyl Dye is almost permanent, because it actually colors the plastic itself. I attempted to take of the paint by scraping the plastic very lightly with an X-ACTO knife, and got most of it off, but there is still a lot on the plastic in all those little grooves in the handle and other places, and I was wondering if I sprayed Vinyl Dye on top of if it would would still be permanent, or would it chip off with the rest of the paint? I'm getting sick of painting my Crossbow again and again and again.

Thanks.
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#2 CaptainSlug

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Posted 04 April 2008 - 08:50 PM

I was wondering if I sprayed Vinyl Dye on top of if it would would still be permanent, or would it chip off with the rest of the paint?

It can only affect the plastic itself. It cannot alter the color of paint.
You likely got poor results on the plunger tube parts because of their extremely smooth surface. For them to accept paint or vinyl dye they have to be lightly sanded first.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 04 April 2008 - 09:02 PM.

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#3 Salmon

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 12:18 AM

I was wondering if I sprayed Vinyl Dye on top of if it would would still be permanent, or would it chip off with the rest of the paint?

It can only affect the plastic itself. It cannot alter the color of paint.
You likely got poor results on the plunger tube parts because of their extremely smooth surface. For them to accept paint or vinyl dye they have to be lightly sanded first.

Well, the plunger rod is painted red, and I got MOST of the paint off, but there is still some paint on there that could be potentially scratched off. So if I sprayed on top of the painted plastic as well as the unpainted, would the dyed paint chip off and leave ugly unpainted blotches again? Or would it color the plastic through the paint?
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Maybe you're familiar with our annual charity drive where we ask for shit, and no one gives any.

#4 Quilan Fett

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 12:32 AM

Why not just use something like paint thinner?
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#5 pulletman

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 12:40 AM

Why not just use something like paint thinner?


I have killed many a cell phone screen with paint thinner, I would recommend not doing that as it might ruin the plunger rod (paint thinner is extremely acidic, especially acetone). You may end up making the rod extremely weak or simply breaking it off on the spot.
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#6 jwasko

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 12:56 AM

I feel the need to state that acetone is not an acid. No, it is not. Yes, I'm sure.

And, as far as I can tell, no other paint thinners are either (except maybe mineral spirits). They are all hydrocarbons, which are not acidic or basic.

However, if cell phone screens are plastic, you probably dissolved them. And yes, it is possible that paint thinner could dissolve Nerf's plastic, too. Remember, folks: like dissolves like!

And, from what I've heard, no dye will not go through paint. I may be wrong on that point, though.

Edit @ 1:58: Just so no one misinterprets: no, acetone is not a hydrocarbon. It still doesn't change the fact that it's non-acidic and dissolves non-polar stuff, though.

Edit2: Simultaneous posting and editing? Cool.

Edited by jwasko, 05 April 2008 - 01:01 AM.

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#7 CaptainSlug

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 12:56 AM

Paint thinner will melt most plastics in short order by chemical dissolution. Some are more chemical resistant than others, but you should keep it away from all of them.
In fact the easiest way to make your own super glue substitute is to drop acrylic chips into a small amount of acetone and you end up with a decent adhesive once the acrylic is mostly dissolved.

I was wondering if I sprayed Vinyl Dye on top of if it would would still be permanent, or would it chip off with the rest of the paint?

It can only affect the plastic itself. It cannot alter the color of paint.
You likely got poor results on the plunger tube parts because of their extremely smooth surface. For them to accept paint or vinyl dye they have to be lightly sanded first.

Well, the plunger rod is painted red, and I got MOST of the paint off, but there is still some paint on there that could be potentially scratched off. So if I sprayed on top of the painted plastic as well as the unpainted, would the dyed paint chip off and leave ugly unpainted blotches again? Or would it color the plastic through the paint?

Take a few more tries with dish scrubbing pads and fine grit sandpaper first.

Vinyl Dye does not have any penetrants in it nor does it have any cleaners or acids. It does have a short-term effect plastic softener though.
The vinyl dye if spray onto paint will only be a film layer on those sections and will scratch off as easily as the paint itself. If you can't get the paint off completely then I would recommend you consider high-temp engine/barbeque or blackboard paints as a top coat. Those are both extremely abrasion resistant if you follow the directions.

From now on it's best to use only Vinyl Dye.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 05 April 2008 - 01:00 AM.

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The little critters of nature, they don't know that they're ugly. That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumble bee. I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me. Why didn't you believe me?

#8 Thom

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 01:57 AM

They are all hydrocarbons, which are not acidic or basic.

I think that acetic acid would beg to differ. :P
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#9 jwasko

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 10:21 AM

I think that acetic acid would beg to differ. :P

I looked up "paint thinners" and didn't see acetic acid anywhere. But, yes, acetic acid is not a hydrocarbon; it's a carboxylic acid commonly called vinegar.

Also, on topic: Why don't you use some sort of sander to get the rest of the paint off? A dremel on low speed could work nicely, but you'll need a light touch so as not to take too much plastic off.

Edited by jwasko, 05 April 2008 - 10:21 AM.

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#10 Salmon

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 12:16 PM

I figure I could, Jwasko, but I am a little frightened to take a Dremel to my prized possession's arguably-most-important part(besides the spring), and I would still need a bit small enough to fit into those indentations in the handle, which are really thin. I don't mind the tiny ones where your palm would go if you grabbed it to cock it, but the bigger ones in the front bug me(dont sig that please)because you can easily see the color of the original paint. Illustration:
Posted Image
The yellow circled part is the area that is covered with red, ugly, chipping paint.
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Maybe you're familiar with our annual charity drive where we ask for shit, and no one gives any.

#11 Carbon

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 12:22 PM

By my understanding, once a piece has been painted with traditional paint, it can't be colored with vinyl dye. The paint clogs up the holes that the paint soaks into to color the plastic, and that plugging remains even if you sand off the surface coloring.

(This is what I found after doing a little online reading, not from personal experience. So, any evidence to the contrary is welcome.)
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#12 Thom

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Posted 05 April 2008 - 05:48 PM

But, yes, acetic acid is not a hydrocarbon; it's a carboxylic acid

Acetone is not a pure hydrocarbon either. Like acetic acid, it contains oxygen.
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