#1
Posted 20 November 2003 - 03:17 AM
researching past posts and the like i found that no-one actually agreed on a design and if i can proove one to be cheap and operational i guarantee i will pimp it around until it is commonly accepted...
i originally set out to use wind up toys... [yeah i no it sounds stupid but you use them in bottle rockets] but i realised that all these impact designs aren't half bad...
im sick of this topic being brought up every 6months and yes i no i will probably another attemptee but i feel im sick of this shit and we have to stop it.....
umm well yeah im going to post pics and most importantly video [small] so thats wat will make this one different... i promise i will explain it in pure english and it will be simple to build... [im sick of zero's cool, but fiddly designs].... if anyone can recommend a media host please do because my current host wont allow anything over 1MB per file and no mp3, avi, mpg, wmv etc. etc.
if you have any other proven techniques please post them and suggest them...
my dad is an artist who paints from photos so i have tons of film canisters....
this one is gonna work i can feeel it....
im excited.....
im shitting on...
#2
Posted 20 November 2003 - 08:26 PM
Good luck.
"Trust no one, not even yourself" -Me
"Hey I was watching that!" "It'll be on next Christmas" "Who the hell knows when that's gonna be?" -Peter Griffin
#3
Posted 20 November 2003 - 11:40 PM
I think you mean shrapnel. The problem with shrapnel is that it's a pain to clean up. That's why I'm not sure how effectively a grenade could be used in a Nerf war.the problem was that it didn't have as much spread as I wanted, and it didn't shoot the flak (is that what they are called?) pieces out very high...
#4
Posted 21 November 2003 - 09:08 PM
any way, back to the matter at hand.. i had originally planned to use foam as shrapnel about --- yay thick and the same width as the film canister but as soon as you mentioned weight it snapped in my mind...
the main point with all this is that i refer to film canisters as the main product because they are readily available to everyone and are either cheap or can be picked up from a photolab person for free, as oposed to using yoghurt containers only available from certain stores and that would cost the yoghurt as well...
for shrapnell i just plan to head down to the local "Clark Rubber" [which is foam and rubber retailer] and get offcuts which they practically give away... considering most things in Aus here are just rip offs of Yank stuff i spose you guys have some sort of equivilant...
will start on project in coming weeks and post pics and vids but not too soon as i have surf camp and this challenge program shit with school....
#5
Posted 23 November 2003 - 09:22 PM
#6
Posted 23 November 2003 - 11:40 PM
somebody get him a peanutbutter sandwich... **about the schrapnel**
otherwise i have no idea about what your talkimn about with the vending machine capsules... are you talking about soft drink or food vendors ... pics would help... other wise i think ill go with film 'nades... but this is good all the same.... people are inputting.... thats what i want...
#7
Posted 24 November 2003 - 05:48 PM
On the film canisters are you going to use 35mm or the new advantix ones?
#8
Posted 25 November 2003 - 12:09 AM
Or, just the conventional grenade designs you guys seem to be thinking. Whatever works in the end, right?
Yeah, statocyst-style shrapnel is definitely a good idea. May look like a hairy mess after detonation, but that's better than killing 10 minutes looking for little bits of foam. I'd also suggest fishing wire, but dental floss seems to be the light cord of choice in this particular case.
If you do happen to use air pressure to fire small bits of shrapnel from multiple barrels, I suggest a system similar to this to ensure everything gets an equal share of the pressure [Nevermind the misspelling of "cord" ].
- Death
#9
Posted 25 November 2003 - 12:12 AM
i wil be using the old 35mm as they are the easist to find...
#10
Posted 25 November 2003 - 02:50 PM
From what I've gathered you can use a spring (I don't like the idea of bits of metal flying around), foam tension (pack it with lots of foam), and now there is this air pressure idea (please explain). Any other ideas would be great.
I'd use dental floss as it's cheap, soft and available where people have teeth. Fishing line is pointy and can poke an eye, though that kid should be wearing glasses anyway so it serves him right.
#11
Posted 26 November 2003 - 02:02 AM
he he he... true enough... i will probably use dental floss, its just the breakages will be annoying. The spring itself will be stationary, but to explain better im going to have a flash animation describing all this, but im finally busy for once so i cant do it, [soon that is]....Fishing line is pointy and can poke an eye, though that kid should be wearing glasses anyway so it serves him right.
#12
Posted 26 November 2003 - 03:14 PM
#13
Posted 27 November 2003 - 10:49 PM
i actually thought about tennis ball designs as well because of this whole davis cup thing they've been handing out free tennis balls in australia, and of course i;ve got about 5 free ones, any plans with these??? because of course there easy to throw and not too bulky to carry...
but im still drawn towards the film canisteers because i can launch them from a rifle like a pc as a secondary fire...
#14
Posted 28 November 2003 - 06:13 PM
Imagine this (since I cant draw):
you take a small ball and glue springs onto it, such that there is no spot without a spring covering it. Next you glue a plate of some kid, cardboard or whatever floats your boat, as the base, onto the springs. Then you load the ammo on the base, which is glued to the springs, which are glued to the ball. All you need after that is a cap to go around the whole thing. Maybe if you used a small bouncy ball as the spring supporter, you could use a hollow plastic wiffle ball as the cover. Of course, the cover would need to be cut in half at the equator, and have a latch of some type to hold it on.
The materials will come to me in the middle of the night, so expect an update on this design before sundown on Sunday.
K:H=1.00
Shots Fired: 2.1 x 10^4
Fun had: 97%
#15
Posted 28 November 2003 - 09:49 PM
[RAMBLE]
As soon as Cads' Brass gets to my post office, and I get a weekend, I'm going to make an air actuated breech that depends on friction force between brass and compressed O-rings, and possibly some external springs (if the o-rings are not enough) to time the air release. Handily, I can also mathematically describe it's triggering (except for Friction force... We'll have to empirically determine that one):
(2*m*d / (p * A - F))^(1/2) = t
Where m is the mass of the trigger rod, d is the distance it must travel to detonate, p is the pressure of the tank, A is the diameter of the trigger rod, and F is the rather mysterious friction force, which *should* be described by:
[mu] * F[n] = F
Where [mu] (my lack of cool Greek symbols is annoying) is the friction coefficient between brass and rubber, and F[n] is the constricting force exerted by the O-ring on the brass trigger rod. That implies the friction force is constant, so we can treat "F" like a constant, and only empirically determine it from multiple trials.
Point is, despite the fact that we left out the fact that expanding volume will decrease pressure, and therefore time will decrease exponentially, we can approximately tailor the length of trigger rod and pressure we need, so we can design something that might actually work properly, or compensate with external springs.
...And yes, the design itself is actually simpler than the math implies . I'll post a 3D model, 'soon as I finish it. Really simple. Like, 8 pieces. Might as well be a Duplo tower.
...For your convenience, I'm adding [ramble] tags.
[/RAMBLE]
- Death
#16
Posted 28 November 2003 - 10:06 PM
Zero: -Ummm exactly how old are you???
-Trigger system, actually wont bother explaining, i will start making the flash animations today i guess, **warning** they will be extra lame....
#17
Posted 29 November 2003 - 03:46 AM
Too old. Though, when you factor in Cxwq and Pinapple, I guess a young whipper-snapper. But those equations are just basic kinematic equations one can learn in highschool Physics. They don't even include gas laws, so don't mind them too much.Zero: -Ummm exactly how old are you???
-Trigger system, actually wont bother explaining, i will start making the flash animations today i guess, **warning** they will be extra lame....
Here's a cheap idea of what I'm talking about.
Tennis balls and scotch tape sound a lot cooler.
- Death
#18
Posted 29 November 2003 - 06:09 PM
No, not like a dinner plate, its just a base or whatever you wanna call it the shrapnel sits on. I'll draw something out, hold on.
K:H=1.00
Shots Fired: 2.1 x 10^4
Fun had: 97%
#19
Posted 29 November 2003 - 08:14 PM
http://www.geocities...ntisGrenady.txtI actually worried the plate reference would confuse someone.
No, not like a dinner plate, its just a base or whatever you wanna call it the shrapnel sits on. I'll draw something out, hold on.
Something like this, with the duct tape hinge and scotch tape temporary latch of a Tennis Ball grenade?
- Death
#20
Posted 29 November 2003 - 08:41 PM
Personally, I don't think a practicall grenade is ever really going to happen. Even if you could find a way to make zero's grenade safe for throwing, you've got a problem:
Okay, so you've got this air, and it's in this tank. And it's going to go through a bunch of little tiney pin holes in a brass tube. This same air is going to then push darts out of several brass tubes. There are at least as many brass tubes as there are pin holes.
And if that wasn't enough, theres a trade off between barrel saturation (the number of barrels and the area that will actually get hit by the grenade when it fires) and range. The more barrels you put on that thing, the less range you get from the same amount of pressure (and I'm sure this thing is going to have low limits in terms of how much pressure it can hold) and the fewer barrels you put on, the less likey you're going to actually hit anything. Thusly, the range you get from fewer barrels isn't going to do you much good because when the darts move farther from the grenade, they also move farther from each other, and can cover less of an area.
And then you've got the grenades that are like the tennis ball or the film canister. If you could get around the problem of detonateing them every time you throw one, the foam in the grenade is still never going to go more than five or six feet from the grenade, and it's only going to go in one direction. And if it hits someone, it's not going to hit them hard, so they're alot less likey to even notice the've been hit, and if they say they weren't, it's kind of difficult to prove they were, what with all the little tiny pieces of foam everywhere.
Okay, I'm getting to the point.......
Hell, if you're going to physically throw something at someone in a nerf war, you may as well throw a nerf football at the person. The velocity is good, the rate of fire is good, the range is at least as good as the range you'd get on a nerf gun, and the accuracy is as good as you make it. But then if we're just throwing shit at each other, is it really nerf?
You can poop in my toilet anytime champ.
2016 Nerf War Schedule
Bless you, my son. Now recite 3 New Members Guides and 5 Code of Conducts for your sins.
#21
Posted 29 November 2003 - 08:59 PM
Well, the idea is that you can hit multiple targets, and eliminate the effect of cover. If you can just hit the person with the grenade itself, then I agree, there's no point at all. I suppose it just depends on the type of area one plays in. If it's open, grenades are mostly useless, since cover is sparse. But if you play in an urban war, or indoors, something that spews bits of foam arbitrarily in all directions could be quite handy....Personally, I don't think a practicall grenade is ever really going to happen. Even if you could find a way to make zero's grenade safe for throwing, you've got a problem:
:snip:
For the brass-flesh issue, you could just nest the statocysts farther into the shell (there's a lot of room), until the outside is as smooth as a normal piece of pipe.
I agree with your airflow theory, and even though that statocyst grenade actually fires when the brass trigger rod is completely beyond the O-ring (thus the air flow is through a 7/16" diameter hole), it is definitely an issue. "Transistor valves" (if we don't like this name, we can drop it), such as those you're looking into for semi-automatic fire, Langley, would suit that purpose quite well.
But we don't know until we try, do we?
Until then, what would everyone think of a "tracer grenade," which detonates when a cord is pulled taut? Think of a harpoon gun, only the harpoon is a pressurized shell with a trigger pin attached to the cord, and a shrapnel payload on the back. I think such a device, though very silly aesthetically, could be quite useful for attacking enemies behind cover. Fire it a few feet over their heads, and pull the cord taut to detonate it over their heads.
As to the hit issue... Well, I guess we need to just trust. What is a game if you can't trust those you're playing against?
...Not fun, just competitive.
...And sorry for the constant stream of posts. Anything to avoid studying for final exams.
- Death
#22
Posted 29 November 2003 - 09:13 PM
You can poop in my toilet anytime champ.
2016 Nerf War Schedule
Bless you, my son. Now recite 3 New Members Guides and 5 Code of Conducts for your sins.
#23
Posted 30 November 2003 - 12:22 AM
K:H=1.00
Shots Fired: 2.1 x 10^4
Fun had: 97%
#24
Posted 30 November 2003 - 12:47 AM
This way when you shoot the gun, the string is automatically pulled taught by force of the shot, causeing the nade to open up like this:
(''')_(''') (underscore is the strong tape, holding the 2 halves together)
The only problem would be the ability too customize string length.
Thoughts?
#25
Posted 30 November 2003 - 12:56 AM
You can poop in my toilet anytime champ.
2016 Nerf War Schedule
Bless you, my son. Now recite 3 New Members Guides and 5 Code of Conducts for your sins.
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