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The Snap-4m

Like the SNAP-4...but smaller.

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#1 Carbon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:18 AM

This came about from a discussion from a few days ago with Sam. He had brought up the possibility of something with more of a pistol form factor with the plunger in the handle. I've made one like this before with 3/4" PVC, but the spring and seal were never very good. (Cennipe also made a nice one out of CPVC). Anyway, the ranges were never that great with the ones I made, so Sam suggested making one with large tubing. I was out of my seal parts for 1.25" PVC, but I still had the old plunger head for my first failed SNAP-5...which was made out of 1" thinwall with .5" endcaps. First time for everything, so here goes.

I initially started out with the angled PVC fitting for the barrel, but it made the whole thing pretty long...which is against what I was trying to do. So, I went with a reverse plunger setup, with a standard SNAP plunger head (twin endcap method, like in the SNAP-1 mk2). So, here's the result:

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Yep, it's tiny. (If you haven't guessed, the M is for Mini, SNAP-4 because it's a revrse plunger. See, I really do have a system for these names.)
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I went with a .5" endcap wrapped in e-tape for the end, rather than an endcap, for size. I may replace the bushing with a coupler, screwed in with the same method.
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Pretty comfortable right now, in spite of the "alternatve" ergonomics. I'm using one of my dogbones for a barrel (borrowed from the Duo), and a cut down SNAP spring. It's really a SNAP, just smaller.
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Range: It's pulling high 60s right now....although, either the barrel is too short or I got some crazy darts, or the design causes it to kick up. I was getting the range, but accuracy (predictability) is low. We'll see how that improves with some work.
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#2 sam

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:25 AM

Nice!
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Dos the short range have anything to do with the trigger being so close? Couldn't you move it back further to get some more range?
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#3 Carbon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:29 AM

Dos the short range have anything to do with the trigger being so close? Couldn't you move it back further to get some more range?

That's actually bottoming out the spring. I could gain half an inch by using a compact plunger head, but the spring I was using had pretty close coils.

Anyway, I figure 70' isn't bad for a 3" plunger displacement in 1" PVC.
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#4 sam

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:33 AM

Oh! I miss read, I thought you were using 1 1/4" PVC. Yeah your ranges sound pretty good then.

Would you mind posting a picture of the plunger head/catch? I was working one for 1" before I left for college.
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#5 sputnik

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:37 AM

So does this mean no more SNAP-DUO?
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#6 Carbon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:56 AM

Would you mind posting a picture of the plunger head/catch? I was working one for 1" before I left for college.

Certainly.

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It's the same as the plunger in the SNAP-1 writeup, with .5" endcaps. The e-tape is there because the endcaps have a bit more wobble than I'm used to with .75" endcaps.


So does this mean no more SNAP-DUO?

On the contrary, but it's going to be a while before I can do the next step...namely, paint job. I have no basement to work in, and there's no way I can paint outside. Anyway, there's a few mechanical changes to make, and I have to give it a proper name, too. Besides, I won't let one project get in the way of starting another.
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#7 sputnik

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 01:10 AM

So does this mean no more SNAP-DUO?

On the contrary, but it's going to be a while before I can do the next step...namely, paint job. I have no basement to work in, and there's no way I can paint outside. Anyway, there's a few mechanical changes to make, and I have to give it a proper name, too. Besides, I won't let one project get in the way of starting another.

Oh good. You should name it Steve, in honor of Steve Irwin, cause of the sting ray thing.
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#8 Cannonball

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 01:14 AM

It's a manta ray though....

I like the sound of the snap duo though. If you name it something though it should be something bad ass and biker related due to the ingenious use of leather.
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#9 Diablo

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 04:30 AM

Stop making new guns everyday, you're making the rest of us look bad.

Really though, it's nice and compact, I like it. I think it would be pretty hard to aim during battle though.

What if you gave it a set up similar to a Razor Fin? Have the plunger perpendicular to the barrel instead of parallel to it. It would be a larger gun, but it would be much easier to aim and even holster than your current design is; thus making it more comfortable to fire and easier to wield on the battle field.
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#10 Carbon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 07:25 AM

Stop making new guns everyday, you're making the rest of us look bad.

Really though, it's nice and compact, I like it. I think it would be pretty hard to aim during battle though.

What if you gave it a set up similar to a Razor Fin? Have the plunger perpendicular to the barrel instead of parallel to it. It would be a larger gun, but it would be much easier to aim and even holster than your current design is; thus making it more comfortable to fire and easier to wield on the battle field.

The problem with a perpendicular or slightly angled setup is that the barrel ends up being so far away from the arm that it becomes hard to use it for sighting, making it hard to aim in another fashion.

I think I may end up putting a grip on it after all.
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#11 PointBlank

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 07:40 AM

Any chance of a write-up...?

But yeah that is pretty sweet.
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#12 VACC

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 09:00 AM

Christ, were you watching Battlefield Earth when you designed this gun? In the future people will NOT fire guns upside down damn-it! That is not the future, that is scientology, and I don't have enough money to insult them in public. PM me for further inflmatory remarks.

Maybe put a hilt style grip on it (to hold it as if pointing a sword at your target) Carbon, to keep it minimized while allowing for comfortable aiming.

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#13 Bomberman

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 09:38 AM

How much would it cost to build one of these? My dad wants me to get out of nerf because every little bit of money I have, I spend on some nerf gun, and he is getting tired of it when I can go out and shoot a real firearm. (my little Ruger 10/22 rifle) Maybe he'll think different of homemades. I love the trigger setups of the SNAP's.

EDIT: I would like make a wrist attachment though, probably just some velcro or something. It is kind of like a home-made Spidey DTG. I like it.

Edited by Bomberman, 14 February 2008 - 09:40 AM.

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QUOTE(silentsnipe) View Post

It's not like that. I put lube on it and its the same. Its just stuck. And when I cock it back it goes farther back then usual. Also I push as hard as I can and it wont go back in. I've tried the methods and they wont work. Also pics are up.

#14 CaptainSlug

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 09:56 AM

Wouldn't it be more comfortable to put a grip on this? You'll end up with a very large version of the Hidden Shot if you add one.
I guess I'm just not used to the "boomstick" configuration.

That is not the future, that is scientology, and I don't have enough money to insult them in public.

You don't need money now that there are a bunch of other people protesting as well.
http://nerfhaven.com...showtopic=10818

My dad wants me to get out of nerf because every little bit of money I have, I spend on some nerf gun

That's not the fault of Nerf but your own. You're never too long to learn how to save and spend your money more wisely.

Edited by CaptainSlug, 14 February 2008 - 12:04 PM.

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#15 Carbon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 12:35 PM

Any chance of a write-up...?

The construction is nearly identical to what I've done with other SNAPs, just with smaller parts. For assembly of the plunger and trigger placement, check out the SNAP-1 mk2 writeup. For parts, swap out 1" fittings for 1.25", and .5" for 75". The only real construction difference is the pullrod end, where I used a .5" endcap wrapped in etape , and then screwed it into the plunger tube.

As far as measurements, I can't help you offhand, as I never measure while I'm building. I gauge everything off the length of the spring by eye. Depending on how this all turns out (not done with it yet!), I may post a detailed writeup later on.

Christ, were you watching Battlefield Earth when you designed this gun? In the future people will NOT fire guns upside down damn-it! That is not the future, that is scientology, and I don't have enough money to insult them in public. PM me for further inflmatory remarks.

Geeeyah....I had forgotten about that. Thanks for exhuming a painful memory.

I actually had an image of using it like a sword or wand, but I think that's probably going to go away.

How much would it cost to build one of these?

Depends on if you had any raw materials to start with, and your barrel material. Starting with nothing, you'd probably need to spend about $20, but that'll give you enough raw materals to build three or four guns...and still not exhaust all your supplies. Once you get stocked and can maintain a parts drawer, the expenditures from project to project are very low, if at all.


Wouldn't it be more comfortable to put a grip on this? You'll end up with a very large version of the Hidden Shot if you add one.
I guess I'm just not used to the "boomstick" configuration.

I was trying for an alternate configuration which used the plunger as the grip, but I wasn't fond of the aesthetics of how it was turning out. (Good function and usability trumps form, but even I have some standards.) I'll probably add a grip tonight., as it'll still be nice to have a small-scale homemade...even if the form factor is a bit different than I expected.
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#16 hoshiadam

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 01:41 PM

For an alternate way of lining it up, couldn't you just rotate the trigger about 90 degrees around the plunger, then put a small turn in between the 90 degree bends? It would make it a handed gun probably (easier to fire left or right handed).

A better explanation (for left handed firing):
1. Rotate the trigger so when it is laying flat with the barrel on the right and plunger on the left, the trigger is on top of the plunger.

2. When holding it by the plunger tube, adjust the barrel so it is comfortable to hold the plunger and the barrel is level with the ground (by rotating the joint in between the 90 degree bends).

Not sure about the handedness - it would depend on the angle between the barrel and plunger.

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#17 Gyrvalcon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 06:03 PM

I actually had an image of using it like a sword or wand, but I think that's probably going to go away.

Wingardium Leviosa!

But really, I like the idea of a hilt style grip. Keeps the whole "tiny" form factor.
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#18 keef

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 07:17 PM

I love it. I'd rather change mine WIP Snap4 to this and add a grip.

By the way, your new avatar is cool.
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#19 Carbon

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 09:40 PM

I actually had an image of using it like a sword or wand, but I think that's probably going to go away.

Wingardium Leviosa!

Get out of my head!

Work for the night:

You know what the world needs?

A homemade Range Shot.
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Awwww yeah!

Anyway. The changes for the night, for real.
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I replaced the rear bushing with an elbow wrapped in e-tape. Much less bulky now. I also added a proper handle, which feels much better. The size is actually pistol, now, about the same proportions as a Mav.

More work to do: the seal with the e-tape on the front isn't as good as a bushing, as I lost about 15 feet of range. I'll seal it up properly, and hope that works. That, and I think my barrel is coming apart a bit...I need to ut it together a bit more permanently than with e-tape.

Edited by Carbon, 19 April 2015 - 04:52 PM.

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#20 Diablo

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 02:49 AM

Very nice, a lot better than the design I was throwing around earlier.

Does the plunger rod sticking out the front of the gun make it slightly unwieldy?
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#21 Carbon

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 07:08 AM

Not really...the throw on the plunger is so short that it's really not that noticeable. Here it is charged:

Posted Image

Edited by Carbon, 19 April 2015 - 04:52 PM.

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