#1
Posted 27 December 2007 - 04:48 PM
For those interested in the details of this modification, I will briefly summarize. In order to easily dual-wield my two Mavericks, I will be adding a solenoid to the top of the gun, above the turret. A metal bracket will be added to the existing slide (much like frost vectron's slider repair) and attaching the solenoid's armature to that. A battery door would ideally be integrated into the Maverick's grip, allowing relatively easy battery changes in mid-combat. A sensor would be added to trigger the solenoid when the trigger is released. While this mod is still well within the design stages, I will most certainly document the construction process when I perform this rather involved mod.
#2
Posted 27 December 2007 - 04:50 PM
You lost me after "Via".I am attempting to add semiautomatic capabilities to my Maverick via electromagnetism. In order to calculate the amount of resistance I would need in my circuit and the number of turns in my solenoid, I need to know how much force it takes to cock a Maverick. Unfortunately, I am without any way to measure the properties of the compression spring within the Maverick's firing mechanism. Does anyone have this information?
For those interested in the details of this modification, I will briefly summarize. In order to easily dual-wield my two Mavericks, I will be adding a solenoid to the top of the gun, above the turret. A metal bracket will be added to the existing slide (much like frost vectron's slider repair) and attaching the solenoid's armature to that. A battery door would ideally be integrated into the Maverick's grip, allowing relatively easy battery changes in mid-combat. A sensor would be added to trigger the solenoid when the trigger is released. While this mod is still well within the design stages, I will most certainly document the construction process when I perform this rather involved mod.
sn1per I appreciate your humor, that made me laugh literally out loud.
"It's a free country, UNDER MY DICTATORSHIP!!!"
-Connor
#3
Posted 27 December 2007 - 04:54 PM
You lost me after "Via".
Hm, perhaps a rephrase, then: Does anyone know approximately how much force it takes to pull back the slider on a Maverick with the stock spring?
#5
Posted 27 December 2007 - 05:15 PM
Why don't you just hang paper clips on a string off of your maverick until it cocks. Then see if your solonoid can lift that much weight? That should be a fairly accurate way of finding out that information. You should probably start with one pound weights, then when you have enough 1lb's to cock it, remove one and start with the paper clips (or something similar) until you can narrow it down to the exact force. Then it's just a few simple calculations and you're done.
"Which road do I take?" she asked.
"Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat.
"I don't know," Alice answered.
"Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."
#6
Posted 27 December 2007 - 05:18 PM
sn1per I appreciate your humor, that made me laugh literally out loud.
"It's a free country, UNDER MY DICTATORSHIP!!!"
-Connor
#7
Posted 27 December 2007 - 05:56 PM
Don't solenoids actuate pretty fast? Why not replace the spring with a soloniod?
I thought about this, and decided against it for three reasons: 1, because I want to still be able to fire this without a battery, and removing the spring altogether would prevent that; 2, because I would have to make the back of the Maverick longer in order to fit the solenoid; and 3, because I really want the slide to be thrown back during the firing process to make the blaster more handgun-like.
Why don't you just hang paper clips on a string off of your maverick until it cocks. Then see if your solonoid can lift that much weight? That should be a fairly accurate way of finding out that information. You should probably start with one pound weights, then when you have enough 1lb's to cock it, remove one and start with the paper clips (or something similar) until you can narrow it down to the exact force. Then it's just a few simple calculations and you're done.
Ah, thank you, that would work nicely. Now to find some paperclips, string, and a scale! I'll be sure to post approximately how much force it takes to cock the slider, in case anyone else happens to need that information.
A solenoid is a coil of wire...electric wire is bendy. Therefore, you wouldn't be able to fire. The solenoid would just coil tighter and stay that way.
Actually, the solenoid would generate a magnetic field that would push a metal bar forward. The coil itself wouldn't do any physical pushing, so it doesn't matter how bendy it is.
Edit 1:
Rounding up to compensate for errors in measurement (I used a fairly inaccurate bathroom scale, as that's the best my parents' house has to offer), it takes about 50 newtons (or 11 pounds) of force to pull back the slider on my Maverick.
Edit 2:
I apologize for my ignorance, but should I keep using this thread for further questions and updates relating to this mod, or should I create a new thread?
Edited by blastron, 27 December 2007 - 05:57 PM.
#8
Posted 27 December 2007 - 07:10 PM
We are the proud members of University of Maryland Nerf Activity Society, summer plans are:
Weekly games and summer Dart o' War.
WE LOVE OUTSIDE PLAYERS.
visit www.umdnerf.com for rules and forums or PM me for any questions. We always welcome outside players.
#9
Posted 27 December 2007 - 07:16 PM
if you DO do this mod, make sure that you cut notches into your maverick so that the plunger can be pulled back and fired at appropriate times.
Errr... the Maverick plunger doesn't prime that way. It isn't like your standard plunger rod setup, because it doesn't have a plunger rod. The Maverick uses a reverse plunger, it uses nubs to catch. You'd have to somehow create more nubs which I'd imagine wouldn't be too easy.
#10
Posted 27 December 2007 - 07:27 PM
I'd use the same thread, and if you need to change the name of it you can (I know you can, I just can't remeber how, I think you just edit the first post...).I apologize for my ignorance, but should I keep using this thread for further questions and updates relating to this mod, or should I create a new thread?
This mod is going to be very intresting, that is of course IF you manage to pull it off. Acctualy, even if you don't pull it off, it will still be quite intresting. If you do, please post pics and videos =] What size battery(s) are you thinking of useing/going to use? I'm guessing too big to fit in the handle of the Mav itself...?
#11
Posted 27 December 2007 - 10:22 PM
you misunderstand. The trigger mech has a hole in it that makes it only able to be fired when the slide is all the way forward. If he wants semi auto, this small modification would allow a faster RoF.if you DO do this mod, make sure that you cut notches into your maverick so that the plunger can be pulled back and fired at appropriate times.
Errr... the Maverick plunger doesn't prime that way. It isn't like your standard plunger rod setup, because it doesn't have a plunger rod. The Maverick uses a reverse plunger, it uses nubs to catch. You'd have to somehow create more nubs which I'd imagine wouldn't be too easy.
We are the proud members of University of Maryland Nerf Activity Society, summer plans are:
Weekly games and summer Dart o' War.
WE LOVE OUTSIDE PLAYERS.
visit www.umdnerf.com for rules and forums or PM me for any questions. We always welcome outside players.
#12
Posted 27 December 2007 - 10:24 PM
"Which road do I take?" she asked.
"Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat.
"I don't know," Alice answered.
"Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."
#13
Posted 27 December 2007 - 10:49 PM
One man Clan:
I saw the Crossbow re-release on the shelf at my local Target, but I didn't want to tell anyone because I wanted them all to myself. I hid them all behind Dora the Explorer toys....
[/quote]
#14
Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:00 PM
1. The current load needed to move 11 pounds is really high and this won't lend itself to being friendly to battery power.
2. As far as I'm aware solenoids don't usually travel far enough to be of any use for this application.
#15
Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:23 PM
I dunno. I feel like air pressure would be the best fit, but then why not just make it an air pressure gun.
"Which road do I take?" she asked.
"Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat.
"I don't know," Alice answered.
"Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."
#16
Posted 28 December 2007 - 05:17 AM
[I should caveat this with the statement that I'm currently a 2nd year Physics Major, and so "one of those newton-science lab-force measurement things" is kindof my life, day-in, day-out]
Since I started reading up on Nerf guns, I've been frustrated by the lack of uniformity in how spring strengths are communicated. BBB, NF, LS, and so on refer simply to the stock springs that come in their guns. I've even read that a NF Spring to one person is an entirely different thing another! Which is a little silly, if you ask me.
The actual task of rating these springs in a scientific fashion is not that difficult at all. Hooke's law states that F=-k*x, which means that the force (f) is equal to the displacement (x) multiplied by a constant (k) which is an intrinsic property of the spring. This is a pretty simple idea, which means the procedure for determining a Nerf gun's spring constant would be quite easy:
1. Get an object of substantial and known mass. (EG: 10 kg weight)
2. Measure the length of the spring. (li = .1 m)
2. Attach it to the spring, and let it hang down directly.
3. Measure the length of the spring now. (lf = .15 m)
4. Do the math. [Force is determined by the constant acceleration of gravity: F=m*a = (10 kg)*(9.81 m/s2) = 98.1 Newtons. Displacement is simply the difference in lenghts: x=(lf - li) = (.05). Finally, divide: F/x = (98.1)/(.05) = 1962 N/m]
So the spring constant of our example spring is around 2,000 N/m.
Maybe this is excessive, I don't know. I just feel like knowing this data to a more exact degree could be helpful in some way; specifically to perform mods like the one blastron is attempting. People could perform these relatively simple motions on any random spring they decide to stick in a gun and knowing the spring constant would probably clarify a lot of things in terms of troubleshooting new mods.
I'd be willing to begin taking data of this type, if anyone were interested.
That aside, I'd like to hear more details on how this EM-Powered gun will function. It's a really cool idea that could open up a lot more possibilities in the future.
-Spike Spiegel
"Trendy, hip OMC Quote"
-OMC
#18
Posted 28 December 2007 - 09:38 PM
I don't really expect people to, I can just see situations in which it could be useful information (like the idea suggested by the OP). Blastron, I hope the method I outlined above, and the suggestions of the others is enough to get you the information you need to start this mod.
Let me know if you've got any more questions specifically on the math/physics aspect of this idea.
-Spike Spiegel
"Trendy, hip OMC Quote"
-OMC
#19
Posted 30 December 2007 - 07:43 PM
F = 50 newtons
L = 1.75 inches = 0.04445 m
μ = 4π E-7 Henries/meter
A = .0625*π square in. = 0.00012667687 square meters
N and I variable.
The way things are looking now, I will either have to get a very good conductor or wrap a lot of wire in order to get 11 pounds of force over 1.75 inches. I've already looked into linear actuators and other motor-driven solutions, and those are far too expensive for my tastes.
For constructing this solenoid, I was originally intending on using a 7/16" steel rod inside a 1/2" PVC pipe, wrapped with however much wire I needed.
Are my numbers off somewhere?
#20
Posted 01 January 2008 - 07:58 PM
Which... yeah, is a lot.
This means that if you have 3-4 amps, which is a lot, and rather dangerous, you still would need almost 42,000 turns of wire. So yeah, these numbers are ridiculous. Forcing relatively weak electromagnetic principals to act on the macroscopic world is a difficult task, so this should come as no surprise.
Your issue of current is also linked to one of voltage, which then begs the question of power.
What, in an ideal world, would you be using to power this?
I think you're better off going with low-current-zillion-turns than high-current-few-turns, but that's just me not wanting you to die of cardiac arrest.
-Spike Spiegel
"Trendy, hip OMC Quote"
-OMC
#21
Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:00 PM
At least there's a lot of room in the Maverick to tuck things away...
#22
Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:12 PM
---
<death09>my girlfriend broke up with me and sent me pix of her and her new boyfriend in bed
<ktp753>ouch.
<death09>yeah.i sent them to her dad
#23
Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:16 PM
#24
Posted 01 January 2008 - 11:56 PM
#25
Posted 02 January 2008 - 12:04 AM
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