26 replies to this topic

[3DBBQ]

rolling barrel to reload

[pat 1st Lt]

Wait..... What?


I'm afraid I don't quite understand it. Do you just have a breech loaded barrel with a donut shaped tube around it, and every time you open the breech, you turn the mag and a dart drops in? That seems to be what you're getting at. I'm not quite sure.

Do you think you could maybe make another diagram, or try to explain it more?

If it's what I think it is, its a nifty idea. Pretty unique. The problem is, I don't really know what it' supposed to be.





Sincereley,
Pat

[blinkycc13]

Well, if {SF3G}pat 2nd Lt. is right, then that sounds like a nice revolver-type design where seals wouldn't be a problem if you made the breech right.

Edit: wait, that actually probably wouldn't work well. The darts would have to be able to hold and fall at will, which would be pretty hard, plus, if a dart is successfully falling into a breech, that must not be a very good fit.

Edited by blinkycc13, 07 July 2006 - 08:23 PM.

[sam]

I think it would work similar to the RCSB barrel system, except instead of the darts being held behind the barrel they are held around the barrel. In fact the more I think about it, the similar it is.

[ShadowSniper]

I'm not sure, but I think he means something like this...only working:

Edited by ShadowSniper, 08 July 2006 - 01:43 PM.

[friendly nerfer]

Although the picture didn't work for me, it sounds a lot like an sm1500 to me.

[sam]

ShadowSniper, on Jul 7 2006, 11:34 PM, said:

I'm not sure, but I think he means something like this...only working:

Maybe, but I think it would be more like some bigger PVC, or perhaps a empty CD case, the would be the magazine, around a smaller peice of PVC with a hole in it for the dart, which would be the barrel, and with some sort of plastic piece acting as that little arm in the picture bonded to the bigger piece of PVC. And the big piece of PVC would have to be air-tight with the barrel. The little arm would help more the next dart into the barrel. It might be hard to get the round magazine air-tight with the barrel, but other than that it would be pretty easy to do. If I get some free time I might try it.
Anyone with sugguestions as to how I would get the round magazine air-tight with the barrel?

[ShadowSniper]

What I meant was have the mag on bottom with a spring powered little arm attached to a breach. That way it feeds the ammo in, and all you do is open/close the breach for a new dart. That way, you dont have to worry about making the mag airtight. The only thing that's stopped me from trying to make one is that I cant find a spring that would work correctly at any of the hardware stores near me.

[Prometheus]

A good concept, although is seems like there would be some definite drawbacks. Sure, great ROF in the field, but have separate containers to store darts is a pain. Also, it seems like it would take a long time to reload when you did finally empty it. Innovative though.

[footemps]

Rotating mag? why nto make a hopper with a breech on the side instead, then gravity should be able to push the dart in no problem. It'd be similar to Captain Slug's magazine, but smaller.

The doughnut mag would be pretty easy though. Have a wall inside the doughnut mag, and then have a slanted feed guide directly on the barrel. That way, when you turn it, it'll force the dart into the barrel no matter what. You'd just need some sort of stop for ever rotation. Maybe have a ball bearing that locks into dimples in the front and back of the doughnut. Also, you could just have a lot of doughnut mags on the barrel so it'd be easy to carry your ammo.

btw: here's my diagram concept.



important aspects:

1. Feed guide on barrel: This prevents jams or no-feeds/mis-feeds.
2. Screw off endcap: This allows for stupid fast loading when you run out of clips

Edited by footemps, 18 July 2006 - 12:45 PM.

[Master Yogurt]

One problem with your concept idea - it can only load one dart! After that, the barrel is sealed off by the internal wall of the cylinder. Even if you didn't do that, you'd still be losing a good bit of air into the magazine itself unless it's both a traditional breech and a rotating mag instead. What MAY work, however, is a system in which a spring at the far end pushes the darts inward like a normal magazine, except rotated. When you turned the mag, you would open the breech, dart would be pushed in, then turn it back to close it. Still, a traditional magazine would probably be more effective and far easier. I don't really get the point of this as opposed to a regular magazine, though. It would be interesting, but I'm not sold on its effectiveness. Seems to me that opening a breech and turning the mag is much more work than simply opening the breech.

[Gyrvalcon]

If you look at the cross-section in the diagram, you can see that the magazine could rotate for more than one dart length. I really like this idea, and if you used a modified Unknown breech or nested brass breech, I don't think you would need a back+forth action to the breech, either.

[footemps]

Gyrvalcon, on Jul 18 2006, 04:06 PM, said:

If you look at the cross-section in the diagram, you can see that the magazine could rotate for more than one dart length. I really like this idea, and if you used a modified Unknown breech or nested brass breech, I don't think you would need a back+forth action to the breech, either.

Looks like you got the idea down! I'm thinking of designing a mechanism that opens the breech and primes the dart in one pump action. It's doable, just look at revolvers the trigger turned the drum and primed the hammer on later models.

I'm thinking of using a pump. The breech is hard mounted to the pump and then the pump is also attached to a mechanism that turns the drum. It'll probably be similar to the mav drum.

Edited by footemps, 18 July 2006 - 08:33 PM.

[davidbowie]

footemps, i've made something similar to what you're talking about. I would highly recommend getting rid of the breech entirely, and instead using multiple barrels in a revolver-style drum. It's much simpler and easier to build.

[footemps]

davidbowie, on Jul 18 2006, 05:12 PM, said:

footemps, i've made something similar to what you're talking about. I would highly recommend getting rid of the breech entirely, and instead using multiple barrels in a revolver-style drum. It's much simpler and easier to build.

My opinion on many nerf multi-shot solutions is that they are too ghetto rigged. Boltsniper and 3dbbq are people in the NIC that really put some thought and engineering behind their designs. I'm not saying that people didn't do any sort of design and engineering to get things to work. But when I look at the gatling gun style revolvers with multiple barrels, I can't help but see them as a waste in materials for a quick fix.

I'll do a full rendering of my model in pro-e sometime, but I can give you a parts list right now.

Tools
Dremel
PVC Cement
Screwdrivers/wrenches (maybe? depends on my propulsion source)

Materials
PVC sizes yet to be determined (propulsion and magazine and body)
PETG or Brass (Use: breech and barrel)
Pen Spring (Use: detent)
Ball Bearing (Use: detent)
1/8" Diameter aluminum rod (Pump Arm and firing valve on/off)
1/4" Diameter aluminum rod (on/off)
Medium Spring (on/off return)
Parker's Paraflex Macroline
90 degree Macroline fittings
Low Pressure Regulator
Orings various sizes (sealing on/off)

Master Yogurt, on Jul 18 2006, 03:21 PM, said:

One problem with your concept idea - it can only load one dart! After that, the barrel is sealed off by the internal wall of the cylinder. Even if you didn't do that, you'd still be losing a good bit of air into the magazine itself unless it's both a traditional breech and a rotating mag instead. What MAY work, however, is a system in which a spring at the far end pushes the darts inward like a normal magazine, except rotated. When you turned the mag, you would open the breech, dart would be pushed in, then turn it back to close it. Still, a traditional magazine would probably be more effective and far easier. I don't really get the point of this as opposed to a regular magazine, though. It would be interesting, but I'm not sold on its effectiveness. Seems to me that opening a breech and turning the mag is much more work than simply opening the breech.

I saw what you meant when I looked at my drawing again. I was in a rush to get my design down and forgot to address the fact that the wall inside the magazine is supposed to move while the barrel feed guide is fixed. You rotate it and the wall inside the magazine moves while the magazine is locked in place by the feed guide.

Edited by footemps, 18 July 2006 - 08:49 PM.

[davidbowie]

By "revolver" I don't mean like the many "revolver mods" people have done (i.e. tech-turret), where you have to pull the turret out, rotate, and place it back in, then prime. I mean auto-rotating, either with the charging action or trigger-controlled (like the maverick, DTG, etc).

You were talking about using a pump handle to A) charge the gun B ) rotate a "rolling mag" C) operate a breech. I said to eliminate the breech and change the rolling mag to a revolver-style magazine. I said nothing about manually rotating the turret.

[footemps]

davidbowie, on Jul 18 2006, 07:54 PM, said:

By "revolver" I don't mean like the many "revolver mods" people have done (i.e. tech-turret), where you have to pull the turret out, rotate, and place it back in, then prime. I mean auto-rotating, either with the charging action or trigger-controlled (like the maverick, DTG, etc).

You were talking about using a pump handle to A) charge the gun B ) rotate a "rolling mag" C) operate a breech. I said to eliminate the breech and change the rolling mag to a revolver-style magazine. I said nothing about manually rotating the turret.

pump is for:
1) rotating mag
2) operating breech

Gun is:
1) Powered off a high pressure (80+ PSI) air source
2) Regulated down to 30 PSI

Trigger is:
1) Dedicated to operating propulsion

[CaptainSlug]

In order for the barrel to be able to accept a dart it has to have a dart-sized hole cut in it's cross section. This means a hole that matches it's inner diameter, which also equates to a large lip that the dart has to overcome to exit the barrel when fired. This adds resistance and will make your firing unpredictable.
Another problem I forsee is that there is no means of clearing a mis-fire since the magazine is completely covering the breech.

Just make the barrel slide back and forth instead of rotating or use multiple barrels.

[footemps]

CaptainSlug, on Jul 19 2006, 11:44 PM, said:

In order for the barrel to be able to accept a dart it has to have a dart-sized hole cut in it's cross section. This means a hole that matches it's inner diameter, which also equates to a large lip that the dart has to overcome to exit the barrel when fired. This adds resistance and will make your firing unpredictable.
Another problem I forsee is that there is no means of clearing a mis-fire since the magazine is completely covering the breech.

Just make the barrel slide back and forth instead of rotating or use multiple barrels.

Didn't think about the friction within the magazine... Would it really lead to misfiring that much?

[LionHeart256]

3DBBQ, on Jul 7 2006, 10:31 AM, said:

rolling barrel to reload

why not try to make a box magazine like the one on the SAW machine gun ive been trying to get a bigger clip (or make one) for ages so i nreally am trying to get something solid as an idea

[MoonMaster]

CoughCoughNecroCoughCough!
Sorry, I'm allergic to stupid.

(Didn't mean to backseat mod there.)

Grammar is your friend, read the CoC!

[ejrasmussen]

Uhh ohh, you better hope VACC isn't around right now.

[Pineapple]

Can it, backseat moderator wanna-bes.

LionHeart256, check post dates. Oftentimes members who post things dating that far back aren't even active anymore. If you find something in an old post that interests you, make a new post with perhaps a link to the old one. That way you don't get a flood of new guys who want to throw weight around on even newer guys.

I'm in a good mood so we'll chalk that one up as a boo-boo.



-Piney-

[wardrive]

A Drum Magazine. Your rolling mag seems to be a primitive drum magazine.
the rolling mag should be in a spiraling design. Not a circular drop, which is what your design appears to be.
A spiraling drum might be a lot more efficient, if you want to increase capacity, but you'd need to choose your spring carefully, too strong and your ammo will smoosh, too weak and you won't be able to fire.

[PointBlank]

Thats a really good idea!