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New Design Full Metal Catch Unbreakable!

#1 User is offline   hamoidar 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 02:54 PM

After having my second snap trigger break on me, I decided it is high time to say goodbye to the relatively unreliable clothespin catch. So, I set out to create an easy reliable alternative. This catch only took me half an hour to make, and that was without any instructions! It is made almost entirely out of metal, and can be easily adapted for just about any gun, since it only occupies as much space as the single piece of pipe it is made of. My photobucket album is messing up, so some of the pictures are bigger than others.

Materials:
Ύ” threaded steel pipe piece.
1/8” diameter metal rod.
1/16” music-wire; or equivalent size wire.
Random extension spring. (I think it is from an RF-20)
Ύ” PVC pipe.


Tools:
Drill
Assorted drill bits
Dremel
Assorted dremel bits
JB Weld, or any other hard-setting epoxy.


First, take your steel tube, and drill two 9/64” holes, 3/4" apart, as shown:
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Then, drill a third hole next to one of the original holes, 5/8” apart.
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Using a dremel cut-off wheel, connect the holes.
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Drill another hole next to the slot, across from the original pair of holes.
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Drill the final hole above the last one, like this:
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Insert two pieces of 1/8” metal rod, to make sure that the holes are correct.
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Cut a groove across the hole above the slot. This is for the music wire.
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Widen the hole above the slot to 15/64”, making sure to angle the bit towards the nearest pipe wall.
Doing so will ensure the catch rod enough clearance.
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In the tip of one of the 1/8” metal rods, drill a 1/16” hole:
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Test fit the music wire:
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Take a second piece of 1/8” rod, and JB weld it into the unmodified pair of holes.
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Leave about ½” sticking out on the side with the widened hole:
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Now, get a 2” long piece of ½” PVC:
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Cut a groove along on side. This is for the protrusion on the inside of the steel pipe. You could dremel down the protrusion, but this is faster.
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Hammer the PVC into the steel pipe, making sure to come almost to the edge of the holes:
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Cut off the leftover pipe:
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!!!!!!Please ignore the spring system that you will see in some of the pictures, it was a failed attempt. Just follow the instructions and you catch should work fine.!!!!!!!

Now, take a 2” piece of ½” CPVC, and dremel 1” of it until it fits in the PVC.
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Glue it into the PVC:
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Cut off the excess pipe:
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Dremel the inside edge until it looks like this:
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Bend the 1/8” rod with the hole until it looks roughly like the picture. It doesn’t have to be exact.
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Cut the rod that is already glued into the pipe. Make sure to notch the higher edge, as pictured.
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Cut a small notch in the catch rod 1 Ό” from the hole.
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Slide a ½” length of music wire into the hole in the rod, then epoxy the wire into the groove that you cut earlier.
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Take your small extension spring….
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And connect it as shown.
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Your super durable catch is now finished!

Here is how it catches:
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Questions? Flames?
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#2 User is offline   Bchamp22795 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:07 PM

So from how I understand it, you have to pull "outwards" on the metal rod to fire? I thing that this is pretty cool, but have you thought of a good way to integrate this into a homemade? I feel like the extension spring may be tricky to get fitting with everything else as well as making a nice trigger. Otherwise, it seems easy to build for the people with the right tools. I can't wait to see what you do with it! Nice work.

#3 User is offline   Langley 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:53 PM

Have you made a working blaster out of this yet? What does the plunger rod look like?
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#4 User is offline   hamoidar 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:53 PM

View PostBchamp22795, on 07 May 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

So from how I understand it, you have to pull "outwards" on the metal rod to fire? I thing that this is pretty cool, but have you thought of a good way to integrate this into a homemade? I feel like the extension spring may be tricky to get fitting with everything else as well as making a nice trigger. Otherwise, it seems easy to build for the people with the right tools. I can't wait to see what you do with it! Nice work.

Since the catch can be made to work in both directions, you can push or pull the rod to fire. A good trigger system would be a sideways ramp running in a track, that, when pushed, would push the rod to the side. The threads fit in to standard 3/4" pvc threaded connectors, so incorporating it into a gun would be very easy. Since a threaded coupler does not come all the way to the center of the pipe, the spring dosn't get in the way. Nor do any of the other parts. I will take a few pics of how you could incorporate this into a gun tomorrow.
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#5 User is offline   CaliforniaPants 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 03:57 PM

From the looks of this wouldnt the music wire just bend immediately and get stuck in the plunger rod?
EDIT: not the music wire but the rod, sorry for the confusion

This post has been edited by CaliforniaPants: 07 May 2012 - 04:59 PM

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#6 User is offline   SlightlySane813 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:26 PM

That is essentially what they did in Make magazine when they made a tutorial for a homemade nerf gun.

http://makeprojects....Nerf-Gun/1816/1
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#7 User is offline   hamoidar 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 05:35 PM

View PostLangley, on 07 May 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Have you made a working blaster out of this yet? What does the plunger rod look like?

No, I havn't made a blaster with it yet, since I just finished it today. The plunger rod would be made of 3/8" nylon rod, and would have ring/groove for the catch. You could make the rod have a cone at the tip, if you wanted to use the catch in a gun like the Longshot-esque blaster, where the plunger is primed with a bolt. I was thinking more of a standard snap design, with the plunger rod protruding from the back of the gun.

View PostCaliforniaPants, on 07 May 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

From the looks of this wouldnt the music wire just bend immediately and get stuck in the plunger rod?
EDIT: not the music wire but the rod, sorry for the confusion

Nope, the bronze is extremely hard to bend, even in long lengths. In such a short section, it is all but impossible. Since it is held in place from both sides, bending it would require a spring of massive strength. Also, the pvc comes right up to the catch rod, adding a bit of support, not that it needs it.
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#8 User is offline   CaliforniaPants 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:44 PM

Okay I was trying to be nice, but this is a fucking terrible thing you've made here. I have made a bulleted list as to why this is true.
  • nobody wants to push their trigger sideways
  • your sliding trigger to push it sideways adds un needed bulk
  • the whole design is un needed bulk, considering it would need to be at the end of the plunger tube or inside it, mounted some awful way
  • when a spring is pushing against that, its going to be a bitch to swivel
  • in fact I wouldnt be surprised if you went to swivel it under load and the music wire at the top bent or just snapped off


In short, use a rainbow catch or if you cant wrap your mind around that a clothespin. Im not trying to be overly mean, just saving you trouble of designing something around this and having it be terrible.
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#9 User is offline   Langley 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 06:56 PM

Okay, so before this turns into an all-out flame war, there's an easy way to solve this. Hamoidar, you could build this into a gun that works, and then take it to a nerf war and use it all day, which--when you get down to it--is what you should do before anything any time you want to post a writeup. Until then, it's just a weird chunk of metal. At best it could inspire someone else to make a working nerf gun, but it could just as easily be doing that from the homemades picture thread.
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#10 User is offline   Blue 

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 08:49 PM

This is certainly creative, reminds me of the lever in toilet tanks that pulls up the plug. However, you are doing something wrong if you are having clothespin triggers break because they are very durable when made right.

#11 User is offline   Exo 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:41 AM

My first attempt at a snap failed horribly, too. I would suggest a ring catch blaster (SGNerf's thing). They are easy to make, and with a bit of clever hardware use can require little to no machining of metal, an only cutting and drilling of PVC. And, to my knowledge, no one's broken an RCB yet.

Also, on a more assisting note, you may be able to have a non-wierd trigger, but it may take some machining. The pin would be pointed straight down when "open" and angled to the side when "closed or primed". The trigger's "contact with pin surface" would be on the side of the trigger, and would be a triangle shape, so that as the trigger is pulled, it slides on the rod and pushes the rod to the side. You may also be able to make the catch pin out of a sheet/bar of aluminium, and with a larger hole for the rotating point pin, maybe a legitimate bolt, attatched in some manner, which negates 3 of CalifoniaPant's arguements. You may even be able to use only one peice of rod, if you were to attatch the catch spring to the bolt, wrapped around the catch tube in the same way. As for "bitch to swivel", it would be like any other plate catch, the force of the springs are already acting on the catch, and it's not like our blasters are finger-straining at the moment. As for "unneeded bulk", I could see this used like a RCB, with the plungertube directly out the front, etc, etc.

This is a clever design, and I think it may have some compactness potential over an RCB.

This post has been edited by Exo: 08 May 2012 - 10:01 AM


#12 User is offline   Daniel Beaver 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 09:58 AM

View PostExo, on 08 May 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

My first attempt at a snap failed horribly, too. I would suggest a ring catch blaster (SGNerf's thing). They are easy to make, and with a bit of clever hardware use can require little to no machining of metal, an only cutting and drilling of PVC. And, to my knowledge, no one's broken an RCB yet.


Please stay on topic. This thread is discussion about hamoidar's metal catch, not ring catch blasters.


EDIT: that's better

This post has been edited by Daniel Beaver: 08 May 2012 - 09:59 AM


#13 User is offline   hamoidar 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 10:15 AM

View PostCaliforniaPants, on 07 May 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Okay I was trying to be nice, but this is a fucking terrible thing you've made here. I have made a bulleted list as to why this is true.
  • nobody wants to push their trigger sideways
  • your sliding trigger to push it sideways adds un needed bulk
  • the whole design is un needed bulk, considering it would need to be at the end of the plunger tube or inside it, mounted some awful way
  • when a spring is pushing against that, its going to be a bitch to swivel
  • in fact I wouldnt be surprised if you went to swivel it under load and the music wire at the top bent or just snapped off


In short, use a rainbow catch or if you cant wrap your mind around that a clothespin. Im not trying to be overly mean, just saving you trouble of designing something around this and having it be terrible.

-I personally don't mind pushing the trigger sideways, so saying nobody does is false.
-The optional trigger mech would be no bigger than a clothespin.
-Last time I checked, a strong reliable catch is not unneeded bulk. It can be screwed into standard 3/4" thread PVC fittings, so mounting it would be extremly easy.
-Prehaps you would like to explain why it would be difficult to swivel.
-You have proven that you do not know anything about music wire. So I will tell you about it: Music wire is a type of hardened steel, it can be bought in many different diameters. A 2" length of 1/16" diameter wire is almost impossible to bend with your bare hands. JB weld is also extremly strong.(when alowed to cure properly) The wire is hardly under any stress from the spring, as it is simply a hinge for the catch rod. I honestly cannot see were you got the idea that is is under tension.
-"cant wrap your mind around that a clothespin" Okay....um...whatever. Seriously though, how are you ever going to get anywere if if you condem new ideas?
For proof that this catch can hold up under strain, I have included a picture of it (and me) lifting a pretty darn heavy chair. It was pretty easy to release the catch under all that weight.
Posted Image
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#14 User is offline   Coop 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 11:52 AM

It's an interesting concept, but I don't understand why you'd go through all that metal cutting just for a catch. I've used polycarbonate for my homemade catches and have never broken one. Nor have I seen someone else break one due to normal use. Metal is annoying to work and seems like it's unnecessary unless it's a part that may actually break.

Snap catches won't break often unless you make them incorrectly and a Rainbow catch won't break unless you hit it with a hammer. So again, it seems like you're going through a lot of work just to say it's made out of metal.

View Posthamoidar, on 08 May 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

1) Last time I checked, a strong reliable catch is not unneeded bulk. It can be screwed into standard 3/4" thread PVC fittings, so mounting it would be extremly easy.
2) Prehaps you would like to explain why it would be difficult to swivel.


1) Mounting it wouldn't be hard, but making the inverted trigger mech operate seems like it is unneeded bulk. Unless you wanted a crossbow (real crossbow, not a Nerf crossbow) style trigger where it's just a bar that you press. But then you're fucking with the ergonomics of the blaster for no reason.
2) Under the stress of a fully compressed K26, I also have doubts about how smooth it would operate. That's a whole bunch of stress on the catch pin and it does seem like it would be uncomfortable to disengage.

#15 User is offline   hamoidar 

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

View PostCoop, on 08 May 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

It's an interesting concept, but I don't understand why you'd go through all that metal cutting just for a catch. I've used polycarbonate for my homemade catches and have never broken one. Nor have I seen someone else break one due to normal use. Metal is annoying to work and seems like it's unnecessary unless it's a part that may actually break.

Snap catches won't break often unless you make them incorrectly and a Rainbow catch won't break unless you hit it with a hammer. So again, it seems like you're going through a lot of work just to say it's made out of metal.



1) Mounting it wouldn't be hard, but making the inverted trigger mech operate seems like it is unneeded bulk. Unless you wanted a crossbow (real crossbow, not a Nerf crossbow) style trigger where it's just a bar that you press. But then you're fucking with the ergonomics of the blaster for no reason.
2) Under the stress of a fully compressed K26, I also have doubts about how smooth it would operate. That's a whole bunch of stress on the catch pin and it does seem like it would be uncomfortable to disengage.

One nice thing about this catch is that it dosn't have to be made of metal, I just made it out of metal because that is what I had lying around. Since this was so easy to make with metal, it would be even easier with PVC. I do agree that a rainbow catches are extremly tough, but definitly not easier to make. If you are makeing a SGnerf style catch, there is a lot of work involved in dremeling the tee into the proper shape. For a polycarbonate in-pipe catch, the process of getting it straight and secure is a pain. Not to mention actually cutting the polycarbonate into circles.

On a completely different note......
Now that I think about it, you could build this catch into the plunger tube/pipe itself.
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