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OMW Massacre AT Kit An in depth look at their latest product

#16 User is offline   Bchamp22795 

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:15 PM

View PostZoMbIe_HuNtEr, on 28 March 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Yes, however with the 6kg spring, even with reinforcement there have been issues. These included people forcing through the dart tooth, or even broken plunger tubes such as mine. I ordered 3 5kg springs from them and they are replacing my breech and plunger tube. If all goes well, I will have a perfectly working alpha.


I am merely pointing out the reason their websites don't suggest the 6kg spring
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#17 User is offline   hamoidar 

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 05:58 PM

What I don't get is why OMW went with the same, weak, plastic-saving design for the bolt. Why didn't they make it solid? If you are paying (a lot) of money for somthing, you should not have to modify it to get it to work.

This post has been edited by hamoidar: 28 March 2012 - 05:58 PM

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#18 User is offline   ThatBritishGuy 

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:56 PM

They didn't, as I showed in the pictures above, they have greatly thickened all the plastic in the bolt so if it breaks it would have been a faulty product. Mine still hasnt broken after 600 shots of testing and a 4 hour HvZ game
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#19 User is offline   hamoidar 

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:19 AM

View PostThatBritishGuy, on 28 March 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

They didn't, as I showed in the pictures above, they have greatly thickened all the plastic in the bolt so if it breaks it would have been a faulty product. Mine still hasnt broken after 600 shots of testing and a 4 hour HvZ game

I know it works, at least once you have modified it. What I mean is that you should not have to epoxy/screw the bolt to priming rod connection to get it to work. If OMWs are trying to sell these kits to people who don't want to mod the gun properly, then they should make them work without modification.
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#20 User is offline   ThatBritishGuy 

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 10:30 AM

View Posthamoidar, on 29 March 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I know it works, at least once you have modified it. What I mean is that you should not have to epoxy/screw the bolt to priming rod connection to get it to work. If OMWs are trying to sell these kits to people who don't want to mod the gun properly, then they should make them work without modification.


That's a flaw in the Alpha Trooper design, not OMWs kit. The priming rod that attaches to the bolt sled has always been flimsy and had the possibility of breaking. If they had made a bolt sled with integrated priming bar (which would have been horrendously difficult) it may not have solved the problem as it is always going to be a weak point.
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#21 User is offline   Bchamp22795 

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

You have to cut OMW some slack. They love what they are doing, but its tough for them. I still don't understand how OMW is still in business. I love what they are doing, but I don't think their market is big enough. They sold almost 2000 massacre kits. Lets say they made $30 from each unit, price for each minus the material cost (overestimating). Then how about the prototypes, equipment, stock blasters for testing, darts, building utilities/rent/leasing, lets take away $10,000. Then they want to make some profit to keep for future R&D so they can grow their business. So lets take out another $5,000. That leaves them with $45,000. Split between 10 people, $4,500 a person for working for 5 months, over 40 hours a week. Not including taxes.

Even if you move some of the numbers around, or add in the less popular stage 1 kits, they still aren't getting much. Long story short, don't complain about prices or quality because they are under high stress right now to not go under as a company.

Maybe this isn't the right place to point this out, but I still think people should be aware.
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#22 User is offline   Griever 2112 

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 11:37 AM

View Posthamoidar, on 29 March 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I know it works, at least once you have modified it. What I mean is that you should not have to epoxy/screw the bolt to priming rod connection to get it to work. If OMWs are trying to sell these kits to people who don't want to mod the gun properly, then they should make them work without modification.

They went off the designs from the original bolt sleds, plungers and breeches, and did what they could to make the polycarb kits that much better. That wiggle room on the AT and Raider sleds are present in the original stock design, and unfortunately carried over. I'm sure if they could have fixed it 100% they would have. And besides, the fix isn't that complicated. You are not forced to manufacture a custom piece or spend tireless hours waiting for something to dry... the fix is as simple as some hot glue... you want super sturdy use epoxy putty... its less than 5 bucks for a tube and dries within a day (give or take) Plus if they did a integrated priming bar, what would happen to people who expoyed their bars into their priming handle. Or Maybe make a stronger priming bar, how would the stock shell be able to handle the thicker gauge wire? Would it fit?

Don't forget the release of these kits got pushed 2 months because of design flaws and reworks... I think they took into account everything feasible they could do.

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#23 User is offline   ZoMbIe HuNtEr 

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:06 PM

View PostBchamp22795, on 29 March 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

You have to cut OMW some slack. They love what they are doing, but its tough for them. I still don't understand how OMW is still in business. I love what they are doing, but I don't think their market is big enough. They sold almost 2000 massacre kits. Lets say they made $30 from each unit, price for each minus the material cost (overestimating). Then how about the prototypes, equipment, stock blasters for testing, darts, building utilities/rent/leasing, lets take away $10,000. Then they want to make some profit to keep for future R&D so they can grow their business. So lets take out another $5,000. That leaves them with $45,000. Split between 10 people, $4,500 a person for working for 5 months, over 40 hours a week. Not including taxes.

Even if you move some of the numbers around, or add in the less popular stage 1 kits, they still aren't getting much. Long story short, don't complain about prices or quality because they are under high stress right now to not go under as a company.

Maybe this isn't the right place to point this out, but I still think people should be aware.


Its because all of the manufacturing is done over seas which is super cheap. Plus with all the orders of the Unleashed kits. Stage 1 and 2 recon, which was a pre order, massacre recon (preorder) massacres (pre order) and the immortal kit (pre order.) The rake in some serious cash. Not to mention all the seperate orders of springs, grease and o rings. I think they get a little more than 4500 every 5 months.
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#24 User is offline   MattTheSasquatch 

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:21 PM

I'd cut OMW some slack. They didn't even have to make these parts at all. They could have just left us with the stock parts that the blasters come with. They took months to make these products for us and they're made very well. Later in the future they may make upgraded versions of the kits that have more powerful springs, maybe steel kits for all the blasters that they have kits for now. Maybe then they'll tweak some of the designs from the Massacre Line to improve. Apart from the Xplorer X-Power kit for the Longshot made by the Aussies (if i remember correctly), no single person or group has really attempted anything on this sort of caliber with great success. Not to mention that these kits can use stock darts. OMW took a big and dangerous dive into these projects, they probably had doubts that the kits would be feasible at one point or another, but yet they kept their heads up and made these wonderful new internals. I mean, they may not be one hundred percent perfect. They could probably still use a few improvements. But for what they are and the time spent, I say a great job well done to OMW.
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#25 User is offline   hamoidar 

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 10:54 AM

View PostThatBritishGuy, on 29 March 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

That's a flaw in the Alpha Trooper design, not OMWs kit. The priming rod that attaches to the bolt sled has always been flimsy and had the possibility of breaking. If they had made a bolt sled with integrated priming bar (which would have been horrendously difficult) it may not have solved the problem as it is always going to be a weak point.

A flaw with the Alpha Trooper?? The gun workes great stock, and the priming rod is not flimsy and prone to breaking. It is the addition of this kit, with its too-powerful spring that is breaking the gun. The Alpha Trooper is not flawed. OMW should make a stronger priming rod that comes with the kit if they are going to sell it with the 6lb spring.
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#26 User is offline   ZoMbIe HuNtEr 

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:03 PM

View Posthamoidar, on 30 March 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

A flaw with the Alpha Trooper?? The gun workes great stock, and the priming rod is not flimsy and prone to breaking. It is the addition of this kit, with its too-powerful spring that is breaking the gun. The Alpha Trooper is not flawed. OMW should make a stronger priming rod that comes with the kit if they are going to sell it with the 6lb spring.


I have seen OMW's posts on the alpha trooper kit, they said it was a tough decision to include the 6kg spring. However because they only tested 1 kit and one alpha, they did not catch any of the problems people have been having. Trust me, if they had included te 5kg spring, hardly anyone would be having any problems. There would be no way for them to consistently create a perfect priming rod strong enough to support the 6kg spring.
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#27 User is offline   hamoidar 

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostZoMbIe_HuNtEr, on 30 March 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

There would be no way for them to consistently create a perfect priming rod strong enough to support the 6kg spring.

And why not? Metal manufacturers sell set-strength rods. OMW could easily buy a bulk order, and shape it themselves. They certainly seem to have the equipment. Or, they could simply sell the kit with the 5lb spring.
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#28 User is offline   ZoMbIe HuNtEr 

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:00 PM

View Posthamoidar, on 30 March 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

And why not? Metal manufacturers sell set-strength rods. OMW could easily buy a bulk order, and shape it themselves. They certainly seem to have the equipment. Or, they could simply sell the kit with the 5lb spring.



I agree with the spring replacement, but because OMW does all the kit creations over sees, by factory, I don't think the factory would submit to forming individual priming rods for the kits. This is just my 2 cents of course.
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#29 User is offline   ThatBritishGuy 

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:30 AM

UPDATE

In lieu of the many complaints about the Alpha Trooper Kit especially, OMW have decided to change their kit. Many users ( including myself) have found problems with the 6kg spring, i now use a 5kg in mine, due to the flimsy priming rod.

OMW said this in their latest email:
In order to address the various concerns regarding the reliability
of our Alpha Trooper Massacre Kit, we have started shipping new
orders with the 5kg spring (instead of 6kg), and an o-ring pad in
the plunger. This pad gives the plunger an extra 2-3mm of travel,
necessary to compensate for any travel distance lost from the metal
priming rod flexing.

The 5kg spring will further increase the durability of this kit by
reducing the stress placed on the metal priming rod during use.
Using the 5kg spring will result in a slightly lower muzzle
velocity when compared to the 6kg spring, but the overall firing
range is not reduced, due to the fact that stock streamlines are
more stable when traveling around 70-80 feet per second.


Now, all kits will not need as much reinforcing and have the plunger travel increased as standard - solving any problems. Just proves that they listen to our feedback!
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#30 User is offline   ZoMbIe HuNtEr 

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:55 PM

View PostThatBritishGuy, on 15 April 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

UPDATE

Now, all kits will not need as much reinforcing and have the plunger travel increased as standard - solving any problems. Just proves that they listen to our feedback!


Exactly, as a matter of fact, the only reinforcement I have needed is for the priming handle, the rest of the kit works flawlessly, the way it should.


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