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SNAP Carbine mk2 Post 100

#1 User is offline   andtheherois 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 02:10 AM

Post 100, Awesome.
(Greenlight to submit this as a contest entry, Joint effort between ACE and myself.)


The original how-to, which I expand in this write up. Most of the credit should go to ACE. I've added the video for future reference, and for the sake of the contest, there's a quick demonstration at the end of the video of ACE priming and firing the blaster.


So I fell in love with ACE's SNAP design (http://www.nerfrevol....php?f=9&t=2960) and built my own. Its a great design, easy to make, and very tough. While building ACE's MK1, I Had some ideas that I could use in the next design. I shot ACE a text and got the OK to bring you the write up. I feel there's enough new ideas to call it a MK2, but I could be totally wrong on that.

In any case, here are the main aspects that make the MK2 different:

-13" body, allowing for full use of a K18.
-Double coupler to allow use of 1/2 cpvc barrels or 1/2 PVC attachments (RSCB, Hopper, Slide breech, etc".
-Homemade LS head
-No Hot glue in the piston, because on a hot day, hot glue likes to fail.
-Air tight. I managed to make my MK1 air tight without a barrel, however when I stuck a barrel in and held my thumb over the barrel, air escaped through the poly pipe coupler.

Materials:
-1 1/4" PVC (13" for body)
-1" PVC (4.5" for piston + however long you want your stock to be)
-3/4" PVC
-1" PVC tee or 90* elbow
-1/2" CPVC coupler
-1/2" PVC coupler
-3/4" PVC coupler
-5/8" Dowel rod
-11" K18 spring
-4x 1 1/4" metal washer (smallest OD you can find)
-1x 1 3/8" O-ring (I used danco #18 to get a perfect seal in mk1)
-Clothespin, nail, L Bracket for CPT
-7x #8 1/2" screws

-Etape
-Goop
-CA Glue
-(optional) Epoxy putty

-Handle of your choice (I chose to use some NF shells I had lying around for their handles, but you can use whatever you want)/

Tools:

Rotary pipe cutter
Dremel (or hacksaw if you're good enough)
Drill

Let's get started.

1. Piston

This is what will create the seal and move the air in our PT. Ace used a LS head in his version (hereby to be refereed to as MK1). We'll be making a home made one.

First take 3/4" PVC and cut out a thin ring about 1/8" thick. Yes it can be done. you need to go slow and make a pilot line first, then cut along that SLOWLY. You should get something like this:
Posted Image
sand it down so it's flat on both sides

Then take your 1 1/4 washer, and glue your 3/4 ring to it. Try to get it as centered as possible. then add another 1 1/4 washer on top of that. Your end result should look like this:
Posted Image

fill the middle with goop and let it set EPOXY PUTTY. Congrats, you made a home made LS plunger head that should fit inside any 1 1/4" PVC, and is easily adjustable with Etape.

Cut out a piece of 4.5" PVC:
Posted Image

And glue the Plunger head to it using CA glue or epoxy, making sure it's centered, and wrap it in Etape, and trim off the excess.
Posted Image

Set that aside for now, we'll come back to it later.
Note: because this is causing an unnecessary level of confusion, this IS NOT an Etape seal. You'll be putting your O-ring over the Etape. The Etape is simply there to help you adjust the seal, such as when adding Etape under an o-ring to any other plunger. The O-ring stays off for now to make your life easier, then gets added later on when the blaster is finally put together.

2. The Body.

Cut a 13" length of 1 1/4 PVC. Set that aside.

Let's make the front coupler. First take your 1/2 CPVC coupler and cut it in half. Get the bottom as flat as possible. Make sure it still has the lip inside.
Posted Image

Then sand it down so it can snugly fit inside your 1/2" PVC coupler. You may need to hammer it in, just remember if you cant sit your CPVC all of the way down into the coupler, you failed. You want the coupler to be tight in the PVC couple, but not so tight you cant get CPVC in or out fast enough. You'll want to goop it in.
Posted Image

Then sand down your 1/2 PVC coupler until it fits in your 3/4 PVC coupler. Remember that if you put too much pressure on the 1/2 PVC walls, you'll add pressure to the 1/2 CPVC coupler, making it harder to put in and take out CPVC.
Posted Image

Then take your Coupler and wrap some Etape around it till it fits snugly in your 1 1/4 PVC body. Then slather it in goop and slide it in. the 3/4 coupler should be flush with the 1 1/4 PVC.
Posted Image

Take 4 screws and put them into the coupler.

From the front of your body, measure 5" and mark it. Then measure out another 5" and mark it. You should have 5" from to the first mark, and 10" at the last mark, measured from the front. Make a line 5"8 long from one mark, and make lines to the other mark. These should be as straight as possible. This will be the channel that your bolt follows.
Posted Image
(disregard any numbers in the following pictures, I fucked up).

Next, mark a line 9 3/8" from the front of the body, and above the rectangle you should have, then make a 5/8" line perpendicular to the rectangle. from this mark make lines, again straight as possible, to the back of the blaster. You should have something that looks like this.
Posted Image

Cut out that section along those lines. You can round out the front and back of the bolt channel, so long as they don't pass the marks you've made at 5" and 10"
Posted Image

Your main body is done.

3. The Piston, Cont.

Take your piston and slide it in your blaster. Mark what pokes out of the bolt channel with about a 5/8" dot. make sure to leave about 1/2" MM between this and the edge of the back of the piston.
(no pic, hope you can do it without one :) )

Then make a hole at about the center of this mark, and drill through to both sides, drilling as straight as possible. Use this as a pilot to gradually drill both holes out to a little smaller than 5/8". I managed to do this with a unibit that my brother has.
Posted Image

Then take your 5/8 dowel rod and slide it through both holes so that it just barely pokes out the other side. and glue it in. Then make sure to round out the side that just slightly pokes through so that it's flush with the PVC. Cut your dowel rod to about 4". Your piston now has the bolt. This is how you will prime the blaster. You can glue a washer to the back of the piston to add a bit of strength to it. My original channel wasn't long enough, so my bolt would slam against the front of it, and caused the back of the piston to break, but hopefully. your channel should be long enough where that doesn't happen.
Posted Image

Take out your piston and be sure to put your O-ring on the head. I use a #18 Danco O-ring. (In bold because it's such an easy step to miss. Do you really need a pic to show you how the put an O-ring on a plunger head?)
Posted Image

You can add or remove Etape as needed to fit in your body, but as long as you're using some sort of Sch40 1 1/4 PVC you should be able to get a good seal with some trial and error. This fixes the problem a lot of people were having with the LS head. Now you have an adjustable one. Also be sure to carve out the 1/4th of the piston opposite the bolt channel. This reduces some weight. And in case you're wondering, this piston and a traditional snap plunger head/rod weigh about the same. The Snap plunger head/rod is a tiny bit lighter. Also be sure to cut down your dowel to about three fingers length. Ideally you should be able to prime by anchoring your thumb around your handle, and using two fingers to bring the bolt back towards the handle.
Posted Image

Lube your body and your piston, then slide your piston into the body, them move it back so that the plunger head meets the edge of the front of the bolt guide. Ideal, if you've done this right, the back of the bolt guide should be there to stop the bolt from moving any further back.
Posted Image

Now depending on which side you want your bolt to be on, you'll want to make a mark either 90 degrees left or right, about 1mm from the back of the front of the bolt guide. (ignore the lower mark)
Posted Image

Make sure to hold your piston and your body together at the configuration in the previous step, and drill a hole through both with a bit bigger than whatever size your nail is. This will be where your nail catches on the piston.
Posted Image

4. The trigger

We'll be using a Clothespin trigger. I'm not actually going to explain this, as there are plenty of write ups on this subject. However I will advise that your nail be about an inch long. Be sure to round out the nail so that its pretty round. This keeps it from scraping the piston and making a channel, which will eventually ruin the catch.

Once you have your trigger glue it on. I would suggest super glue just so you can carve it off if your trigger doesn't work. I remade the trigger for my Mk1 four times, because I'm stupid.
Posted Image

Move your piston all the way forward.

5. The stock, Finishing the gun

Take a length of your 1" PVC, depending on how long you want your stock to be, and glue your Tee or elbow to it. Then take a shorter length of 1" PVC and put it on one end. Once done, glue a 1 1/4 washer to the longer end of your stock. This will make your life easier when you're putting the spring in.

Do 1 wrap of Etape around the long end of the stock, and put that in the end of the body, trying to keep it as parallel as possible to your trigger. Then drill three holes through body and into the stock. Your stock should only go into the body as much as the Etape is thick.
Posted Image

Use your screws to tap it, then unscrew it and remove the stock. With your piston all the way forward, drop the K18 in, and with the stock, push it down into the body. Either use two people or a clamp, because this is potentially dangerous. I wont be blamed if you lose a fucking eye because you aren't strong enough to compress the spring a bit, or if you aren't smart enough to use help. Be sure to line up the holes in the stock and body and put your screws back in. The first time I put this thing together my ends were facing the bolt guide. The spring ended up coming out through the guide and getting stuck, and I was very afraid that the spring would fly out and break through my new glasses, and wedge itself in my eye.

If you managed not to kill yourself in that last step, then congrats. Put a handle of your choice on the body and you are done. You should be holding something similar to this:
Posted Image

Even with the home made plunger head, I managed to get a perfect seal. The piston stops dead if I hold my hand over the coupler or insert a barrel and keep my finger over the barrel. However the goop seal popped, so so i scraped it out and replaced it with epoxy putty.

I've already got plans for mk3, which will have more air output, and a lighter head, along with a (hopefully) better coupler system.

Mk4 is also in the works, which will have an integrated clip breech, and may possibly be a completely new blaster, using the piston setup and possibly pump action, while keeping the same short length.

That's it. You should have a simple and sturdy blaster. I hope I made everything clear, but if you have any questions, comments, or flames, feel free to post.

This post has been edited by andtheherois: 20 July 2011 - 02:16 PM

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Winning rounds is rewarding, deal with it. We don't play fucking patty cake over here.
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#2 User is offline   MrPzowned 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:09 AM

Ace's/KNDoperative's video tutorial from two weeks ago My favorite part is when you steal the writeup, and yours is not 100% original My MP snap from Febuary 4th
And my original pistol versions (in the middle of the page)
The only difference between mine and yours is
1st: My bigger one originally used etape for the seal, I currently uses an o-ring though
2nd: yours has an extra slot to slide the bolt through, I just pt the bolt directly into the plunger after the plunger was set into the body.
I'm guessing your probably going to get points off for originality.
It is a good writeup though

This post has been edited by MrPzowned: 20 July 2011 - 05:10 AM

17:54 Noodle Yes what he did was stupid
17:54 Noodle but it's a plastic toy
17:54 Gears BUT IT COULD'VE BEEN MY PLASTIC TOY
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#3 User is offline   andtheherois 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:30 AM

 MrPzowned, on 20 July 2011 - 05:09 AM, said:

Ace's/KNDoperative's video tutorial from two weeks ago My favorite part is when you steal the writeup, and yours is not 100% original My MP snap from Febuary 4th
And my original pistol versions (in the middle of the page)
The only difference between mine and yours is
1st: My bigger one originally used etape for the seal, I currently uses an o-ring though
2nd: yours has an extra slot to slide the bolt through, I just pt the bolt directly into the plunger after the plunger was set into the body.
I'm guessing your probably going to get points off for originality.
It is a good writeup though


I don't know what you mean by steal the write up, but I talked with ACE about it, and he was fine with me posting the write up. So I asked. I never claimed 100% originality. Also I don't frequent NHQ, so please don't judge the fact that I used "your" design based on the idea that everyone visits NHQ frequently.

1. I don't know what this has to do with anything. If you're implying that I used your same design, again I never saw it, so it was news to me.
2. That's my fault, and I didn't explain that. I haven't slept in the last 30 hours and made the mistake of thinking everyone saw ACE's explication for it. But if not I'll state it again. It's so that you can disassemble the blaster, re-lube it, and troubleshoot it if necessary, like a plunger rod style snap.

The only reason why this wasn't submitted into the contest is because I'm waiting on ACE to see if he wants to or not. If I was stealing it, I would have just put it in. It's not my choice because it's his design. AND YES, I'm calling it HIS because he made the original write up for it, and that's what I saw and based my revisions off. Hell I even offered to give him full custody of whatever prize is won (if won), and I do think his design is good enough to win.

This post has been edited by andtheherois: 20 July 2011 - 05:37 AM

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Winning rounds is rewarding, deal with it. We don't play fucking patty cake over here.
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#4 User is offline   SlightlySane813 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:31 AM

Very nice writeup, I made the MK1 just by guess and check in under 24hrs and the improvements you've made are very inovative, especially with the plunger head.

props
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#5 User is offline   MrPzowned 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 05:56 AM

 andtheherois, on 20 July 2011 - 05:30 AM, said:

I don't know what you mean by steal the write up, but I talked with ACE about it, and he was fine with me posting the write up. So I asked. I never claimed 100% originality. Also I don't frequent NHQ, so please don't judge the fact that I used "your" design based on the idea that everyone visits NHQ frequently.

1. I don't know what this has to do with anything. If you're implying that I used your same design, again I never saw it, so it was news to me.
2. That's my fault, and I didn't explain that. I haven't slept in the last 30 hours and made the mistake of thinking everyone saw ACE's explication for it. But if not I'll state it again. It's so that you can disassemble the blaster, re-lube it, and troubleshoot it if necessary, like a plunger rod style snap.

The only reason why this wasn't submitted into the contest is because I'm waiting on ACE to see if he wants to or not. If I was stealing it, I would have just put it in. It's not my choice because it's his design. AND YES, I'm calling it HIS because he made the original write up for it, and that's what I saw and based my revisions off. Hell I even offered to give him full custody of whatever prize is won (if won), and I do think his design is good enough to win.

Alright, now that I've actually woken up and read the post more thoroughly, I see what you're talking about, I'm sorry I didn't mean to bash you. I definitely know that you didn't use my design because you weren't even a member on the HQ whe I submitted that. Also, I haven't submitted my other two writeups yet, so, be on the look out for those, they rival the SNAP carbine O_o
17:54 Noodle Yes what he did was stupid
17:54 Noodle but it's a plastic toy
17:54 Gears BUT IT COULD'VE BEEN MY PLASTIC TOY
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#6 User is offline   Zorns Lemma 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:34 AM

By having your dowel go all the way through you've cut down on possible room for the spring to nest inside the piston and thus completely defeated the purpose of this design in the first place.

Congratulations on making something that will end up being the same size as a normal snap (rather than more compact), while adding a ton of mass to the plunger head, having an unreliable etape seal, and attaching a large stick that slams forward every time you fire the blaster.
"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
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#7 User is offline   andtheherois 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:05 AM

 Zorn, on 20 July 2011 - 09:34 AM, said:

By having your dowel go all the way through you've cut down on possible room for the spring to nest inside the piston and thus completely defeated the purpose of this design in the first place.

Congratulations on making something that will end up being the same size as a normal snap (rather than more compact), while adding a ton of mass to the plunger head, having an unreliable etape seal, and attaching a large stick that slams forward every time you fire the blaster.


I forgot to make it a big deal when to put the O-ring on for skimmers, but it uses an O-ring to seal, not Etape. My fault for forgetting to make that a bigger deal, but reading clears that up right away. In the future I'll just make the font fucking huge for that point. Future revisions will also have a lighter plunger head. Also I forgot to mention that a part of the piston is carved out to reduce weight, but having seen ACE's video you would have known that, right? The OD of the K18 is too large to fit inside the 1" PVC, although I guess using a a smaller spring I could nest it inside the plunger tube, but then when it compresses is becomes dangerous if I want to keep the free floating plunger head. The large stick shouldn't slam anywhere if you've carved out the large stick channel correctly. As for size, yes I admit it's still the same as a regular snap, however bring the name issue up with ACE. I will defend however that it can be made smaller than a Snap by cutting down the stock, or by just putting a spring rest at the back of the body and completely cutting off the stock, and without having a plunger rod ready to rape your face. Of course if you're stupid enough to get raped by a large stick pointing away from your face, maybe you do deserve to get raped. Thanks for commenting :)
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Winning rounds is rewarding, deal with it. We don't play fucking patty cake over here.
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#8 User is offline   Zorns Lemma 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:31 AM

Good thing that watching the video of someone else's writeup is critical to understanding your own design. Also good thing you have blindly copied over all major design flaws into your improved version.

I still don't see how you don't have an unreliable etape seal. Slipping an o-ring over etape does not do anything to improve on the shit integrity of etape, especially with any sort of lubricant as neoprene makes horrendous dry seals.
"In short, the same knowledge that underlies the ability to produce correct judgement is also the knowledge that underlies the ability to recognize correct judgement. To lack the former is to be deficient in the latter."
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#9 User is offline   andtheherois 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:46 AM

In English, improvement does not mean perfection. However I dont know if that remains the same in whatever language you speak.

I don't need to order a 5 dollar part off mcmaster to get a perfect seal when a $1.10 worth of materials gets me the same seal. And if it starts to fail, I can open up the blaster, replace the tape and the o-ring, and re-lube it and have it ready for the next round. I'm not making a fucking military grade weapon.

This post has been edited by andtheherois: 20 July 2011 - 10:49 AM

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Winning rounds is rewarding, deal with it. We don't play fucking patty cake over here.
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#10 User is offline   Y-Brik 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 08:19 PM

 andtheherois, on 20 July 2011 - 10:46 AM, said:

In English, improvement does not mean perfection. However I dont know if that remains the same in whatever language you speak.

I don't need to order a 5 dollar part off mcmaster to get a perfect seal when a $1.10 worth of materials gets me the same seal. And if it starts to fail, I can open up the blaster, replace the tape and the o-ring, and re-lube it and have it ready for the next round. I'm not making a fucking military grade weapon.

As I recall, a modern washer sandwich plunger head a la Superlative, Preemptive, etc. cost around $2.50, are locally sourced, easier to make, more reliable, and provide a 100% air seal if done right. Why are we running back to reinvent the wheel when it comes to Snaps?

That said, well done on the writeup. I think the carbine is an excellent super-easy-to-make homemade for the newbies and a great shits&giggles blaster for the rest of us. But that is all it is.

Quote

As I said I have not not alot of testes yet but I will be once I finish the mod.

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#11 User is offline   Blue 

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 09:43 PM

This looks like far too much work for such a ghetto mod. I would understand the point of this if cocking the blaster was actually like a rifle or whatever, but the giant rod just slams forward from what I can see. Everything seems like guess and check here too, it would be much easier and simpler to just build a regular snap.
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#12 User is offline   Wes7143 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 05:34 AM

This snap looks pretty cool, I guess. I'll give it that. But unfortunately, you need to accept that this blaster is of inferior design to pretty much any standard snap that can be made with less effort, and achieve better/safer performance. I understand the desire to make atypical blasters that look cool; I've made a couple simply for that purpose, but you need to stop defending it as if you built it for performance, because it can be torn apart (e.g. by Zorn) pretty easily in that regard.
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#13 User is offline   andtheherois 

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 08:40 AM

Alright, I'll give you that. Yes this blaster's design is not as streamlined as a normal SNAP. And I don't intend nor believe this to be a replacement for a SNAP. But using the same SNAP materials, here's a new design for the community so use that still hits the century mark so we don't have to see everyone who can't build or doesn't want to lay down the money for a +bow/RBP/etc with the same style snap. And yes, I understand Y-brik, blue, wes, and although it pains me to say, zorn too.
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Gears said:

Winning rounds is rewarding, deal with it. We don't play fucking patty cake over here.
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#14 User is offline   Darth Maker 

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 10:39 PM

This catch is easier to make. Superlative and preemptive catches are over complex in my opinion. This design is simpler and uses fewer parts. It's also newer, and perhaps the roughest edges haven't quite been sanded out yet. You didn't have the superlative and preemptive (they need replaced just because of the stupid names...) catch/heads when the first SNAP was made.

For what it's worth, ACE and hero, you guys did a great job on a new homemade. I look forward to the next revisions, and this has just replaced my eventual plans to build another normal SNAP.
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No wyes? Try this: The DMK2 wyeless hopper clip.[/size]
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