[utahnerf]

I believe that Pvats should be allowed at wars. They are essentially a homemade BBBB/3k/4k/2k/(pin tank), tank. I do agree that it is ultimately up to the war host to decide if they will allow it. Pvats beat shitcannons.

[PVC Arsenal 17]

Whisper101, on Mar 4 2011, 11:50 PM, said:

On the topic of who this is geared towards, I would not recommend starting with this as your first homemade, or even your second, third or fourth. It’s fairly involved in cutting the “shell” parts, and getting the PVAT to seal perfectly can sometimes be a bitch.

Perhaps you can avoid both issues by taking a slightly different approach as this SpudFiles member did. At the very least, you can eliminate the polycarb shell in favor of a simple [Fimo] grip mounted directly to the chamber with a pushrod trigger linked to the piston. Better yet, (and I don't mean to knock the PVAT) you can skip the sealing issues with a simple fixed diaphragm coaxial gun.

In any case, good work. The journey towards the truly perfect Nerf gun gets shorter with every new creation posted. Maybe we can get there faster if we don't discourage new builders from taking on challenges.

This post has been edited by PVC Arsenal 17: 05 March 2011 - 11:31 PM

[Whisper101]

@PVC: But eliminating the shell would take the fun out of it! it's true; it's not strictly necessary, but then it wouldn't be a L+LPVAT, or FOMAS. PLus, the shell is purty. I think I take your hint about discouraing new builders, but I speak from experience when I say that it's good to take challenges, just not unreasonable ones. If a new nerfer tries to make this as thier first homemamde, chances are slim, not impossible, but slim that it will come out how they want it to. They might get frustrated and drop nerfing altogether which would be a shame. I was just saying that this is probabaly a good homemade to work up to.

[VACC]

I guess I should chime in here, though my chimes tend to take the unintentional tone of a gong, since I've often been associated with any and all gun restrictions; and in this particular case the notion is actually fairly accurate. I've blanket banned homemade air guns at MY wars (I've no magical powers over other war coordinators) since 2002 (my last trip to Armageddon). This ban had nothing to do with oprv's, or their comparison with existing nerf guns. This was because motherfuckers were bringing ball valve or solenoid operated monstrosities with enourmous tanks, whose only function were to fling a single dart hundreds of feet. It in no way resembled nerf as we knew it, and it simply was not fun. The reason that I and many of us continue to blanket ban them, is not because no homemade air gun is reasonable, but because the majority are not. You have to understand that ANY blanket ban is not constructed to regulate a small war where you know and trust everyone. They're neccessities, instead, for massive wars like Apoc, where the coordinator knows a fraction of the participants and has no time to check everyone's weaponry.

This comes back to your assertion that someone who's knowledgeable and trust worthy should be allowed to use a homemade air gun. Should I line everyone up at Apoc and count off: "Douchebag, Douchebag, Douchebag, Good Dude, Douchebag, Good Dude..."? It's just not feasable.

Anyway, I don't mean to lend an air of negativity to this thread, but the topic was broached and I won't want to discuss it in a war thread. It's a badass nerf gun, and it looks like a lot of fun. I love that people like you and slug continue to make these monstrosities. Even if you can't use them at some big clusterfuck of a nerf war, you can certainly find somewhere to shoot your friends with them. Besides, one of these days someone will make something so simple and replicable that everyone will move towards it. Before the plusbow a lot of wars banned homemade guns altogether, and now I rarely see an actual nerf gun anymore. Point is, don't worry so much about what other people will allow. Throw your own wars and kick your friends' asses until they all want one.

[Whisper101]

Yeah, you're right; checking everyone's homemade air gun at a large war is not a good idea. That's a good point though, and other solutions could certainly be worked out with some thought. The FOMAS is not intended to be one fo those ball valve or solenoid guns you mentioned at all, that's why it's the assault SYSTEM. I completely agree with what you're saying VACC, and maybe in the future if these become more popular, it'll be sort of assumed that they're ok for wars. We'll see what sort of modifications people make to the basic design...

[Draconis]

Quote

Should I line everyone up at Apoc and count off: "Douchebag, Douchebag, Douchebag, Good Dude, Douchebag, Good Dude..."? It's just not feasable.

Sounds like the best game of Duck, Duck, Goose! ever!

[Daniel Beaver]

Quote

When Klaviel brought a chronograph to whatever Chicago war was the first week of October last fall, Ryan's Rainbowpump managed 212 fps, his AT3K 275 fps, and my 4B (after frantic pumping to equalize the OPRV a bit) 320 fps. The difference in ranges between these three guns with slug darts is not very large.

I think Klaviel's chrono may have been off-calibration that day; one of the east coast wars (Grid Core, I think?) also tested blasters with a paintball field's official chronograph, and got fps readings that were about 3/2 times what we got.

In any case, the point holds it's ground: lighter and/or less aerodynamic darts can act has limiter on....
....christ, no I'm not going to comment on that subject in a writeup thread. That would be bad form.

[Nerf_Gra]

Back on topic. I really like this blaster in its simplicity and effectiveness. I especaily like the stock you made it just looks so clean and well made. What sizes did you use and what did you use to blend the joints like that? It may just be the slight blur in the pictures but it looks like you used something to blend around the pipes at the joints almost like it was welded. Either way it looks awesome and hella functional.

[PVC Arsenal 17]

Whisper101, on Mar 6 2011, 10:51 AM, said:

@PVC: But eliminating the shell would take the fun out of it! it's true; it's not strictly necessary, but then it wouldn't be a L+LPVAT, or FOMAS. PLus, the shell is purty. I think I take your hint about discouraing new builders, but I speak from experience when I say that it's good to take challenges, just not unreasonable ones. If a new nerfer tries to make this as thier first homemamde, chances are slim, not impossible, but slim that it will come out how they want it to. They might get frustrated and drop nerfing altogether which would be a shame. I was just saying that this is probabaly a good homemade to work up to.

All fair points. The utility (and fun) of the shell is something I hadn't considered. Configuring the gun in the manner I suggested can be awkward and problematic as I've experienced on similar projects. That said, please allow me to clarify that I didn't mean to insult your work in any way. In fact I think it's a neat blend of the two main homemade gun traditions.

I'd also like to ask if you can quantify or offer comparison for the force required to retract the bolt, both with and without the mechanical advantage provided by the trigger.

[NerfGeek416]

It probably wouldn't be too hard to fabricate a lever trigger, if you haven't already done so.

[utahnerf]

My favorite part of the gun is the use of the L+L body, because I feel that many homemade air guns lack a nice, solid shell. It is also nice that this body has a great reputation of being solid, and has been revised a few times, to work out issues. All in all, great gun, I would love to own one.

[Whisper101]

@nerf_gra: The stock's top, long peice is 3/4" PVC, and the other two, shorter peices are 1/2' PVC. I used a bandsaw to cut the joints, PVC cement to secur them, and epoxy putty to add structural support. On the front is a 3/4" to 1/2" PVC reducer coupling. You may be seeing a little tof the blur from the pics, as it's not really all that clean and "blended".

@PVC: yeah, the first thing that came to mind after reading your suggestion was how would I do the trigger? It would be alot harder I think. I didn't take any insult at all. I very much appreciate your suggestions and comments, as they are well thought out and constructive.

Filled, wiht 4-6 pumps, the bolt is very difficult to grasp and pull by hand. Thjis is because I have a very strong spring in there, as well as tons o' air pressure. The washer helps a little, so maybe at 4 or 5 pumps I could still pull it. With the trigger, its much easier. at 5-6 pumps it's a stiff pull (insert sex joke), but not unmanageable by any means. The only challenge is that at the higher pressure you have to opent he valve faster to achieve max performance. This means squeezing harder (again, insert sex joke).

@ nerfgeek: it uses a lever trigger. it's very similar to a lever trigger 4B. the slot in the trigger is really just to give it a little play, which is actually necessary. It is not at all a slide trigger, as that would put a huge amount of stress on the joint betweent he trigger peice and the fork that sits in fornt of the washer.

@utahnerf: Yeah, the shell ties everything together nicely in my opinion. that's another good point about the shell; it's very solid and stable. I literally just modified the sideplates to accomodate my visual needs, and cut the handles differently so the'd be more comfortable.

Thanks for the questions guys, I hope I've answered them adaquately, and if I haven't just let me know. Keep 'em coming!!!

[shardbearer]

Nice job, a small air powered blaster that actually has a shell. Do you have psi readings?

[Whisper101]

Whoah!! I still exist!! Yes, i do in a way. I have this hooked up to a PVC hardtank backpack, and I fill the tanks up to about 75 PSI. I get maybe 20 shots, usually a few less. I;m not sure if this helps. I do remember that, when testing one fo my earlier PVATS, they reached may pressure at about 50-55 PSI.