[TxNerfer]

Hey...I got a crazy idea: how about you stop all that sigging stuff? It's not even my thread and it annoys me. Bringing it back on topic, Rork, could you possibly get a short firing video up? I'm particularly interested in seeing the slider. Looks...unstable

[qwertyupp]

BustaNinja, on Nov 13 2010, 09:26 AM, said:

qwertyupp, on Nov 13 2010, 08:49 AM, said:

defcon44, on Nov 11 2010, 02:08 PM, said:

Stark, on Nov 5 2010, 01:13 AM, said:

There's nothing classier than some nice firm wood.

sigged

He was just asking for that.

sigged

I'd sig that.... but somebody would get pissed and I'd get more time off then I needed.
Plus, I don't use sigs.

And slightly more on topic, do the other small improvements you made to this version of the Mk. V affect performance at all?

This post has been edited by qwertyupp: 14 November 2010 - 01:19 PM

[Fome]

Gee, looks familiar.


I have my doubts about all the wood in the construction, especially in the plunger shaft, i'm not sure it has the elasticity to withstand the abuse of a k26 but I suppose time can only tell. The wooden catch ramp is pretty cool, I'm sure if the wood is hard enough it wouldn't have any durability problems, I wonder if it's actually easier or quicker than just smearing E-putty over an endcap and fender washer though.

I wonder if there's an appropriately sized finishing washer out there that could be affixed to the "superlative" plunger head so we could just avoid all this e-putty, pvc shaving, woodworking nonsense altogether and have something that could just be screwed together out of prefabricated parts. Metal catch face and metal catch ramp? fuck yeah.

But good job, pump action SNAPs are always sexy in my book. I'd like to hear how well the wooden parts hold up after a war or two.

[diamondbacknf1626]

TxNerfer, on Nov 13 2010, 12:42 PM, said:

Hey...I got a crazy idea: how about you stop all that sigging stuff? It's not even my thread and it annoys me.

SIGGED.

Anyway, 'cause Talio scares me. I dig it, rork. A little too much wood for my taste, I like the familiarity of just using CPVC particularly for the plunger rod. Looks a lot like Fome's design. Once we get settled back here, I'll probably fool with some pump action designs I've been tossing around in my head and share. I've always wondered though, since I first saw the design when Fome posted it, how sturdy is the 90 between the priming bars and the rear plate with the hole through it to accommodate the plunger rod?

[rork]

The only strain the plunger shaft needs to stand up to is the force of priming, which isn't a problem if your screws have sufficient bite.

This is neither quicker nor easier than the superlative plunger head; however, it's not that much more annoying to make, it uses fewer, cheaper parts, is lighter, and centers around the plunger rod, which is quite a useful attribute that my next build will depend heavily upon. Also, not all epoxy putty is created equal, and some people have trouble working it into a good catch ramp.

EDIT for DB: It's wicked strong. I used a big ol' chunk of oak, and really overbuilt the whole thing. That stress point is no problem at all, as long as you throw sufficient mass at it.

This post has been edited by rork: 17 November 2010 - 08:56 AM

[Fome]

 diamondbacknf1626, on Nov 17 2010, 08:56 AM, said:

Anyway, 'cause Talio scares me. I dig it, rork. A little too much wood for my taste, I like the familiarity of just using CPVC particularly for the plunger rod. Looks a lot like Fome's design. Once we get settled back here, I'll probably fool with some pump action designs I've been tossing around in my head and share. I've always wondered though, since I first saw the design when Fome posted it, how sturdy is the 90 between the priming bars and the rear plate with the hole through it to accommodate the plunger rod?

Like rork mentioned, an "overbuilt" (overly thick materials) pump sled will no doubt give you enough strength.

However, if you don't want something that's very bulky there's a couple of ways to make the bolt sled as inconspicuous as possible:

1.) Stronger materials: hardwood is tough to beat in terms of sheer economics and machinability, but a variety of rigid plastics or even metals could do the job while providing a drastic reduction in size and weight.

2.) Keep the transfer bars close and parallel to the source of the force. The closer the transfer bars are to the direction of the plunger path, the more the force of priming will travel down the strongest part of the wooden dowels, which is the length of the dowel. The transfer bars in my design literally physically slide against the recess made by the plunger tube and the wooden handle.

3.) Triangles: if you don't want to overbuild the plate that impacts the rear of the plunger shaft, use triangles to reinforce the joint by distributing force down the length of the dowel. A variety of methods could work here, from E-putty to metal angle brackets.

[Echnalaid]

It looks like the Atari 2600 of SNAPs!
I've always wanted a full wooden gun or at least a wooden shell.

[TxNerfer]

Fome, on Nov 17 2010, 01:24 AM, said:

The wooden catch ramp is pretty cool, I'm sure if the wood is hard enough it wouldn't have any durability problems, I wonder if it's actually easier or quicker than just smearing E-putty over an endcap and fender washer though.

Just a little heads up: I built a wood catch ramp today and it's definitely alot more time consuming than smearing epoxy putty over the whole thing. With the proper tools, I'm sure it could go alot faster. I am using a cpvc plunger rod so I went with the typical plunger head. Therefore, I had to trace out the on oak board, trace the outside diameter of the 1-1/4" fender washer, then cut it out with the scroll saw. Very time consuming. As I was saying, if you used a wooden dowel for a plunger rod, you could drill out the middle with a spade bit and do the outer part of the circle with a hole saw. The other time consuming part was sanding it down and getting the proper angle. Since I was using oak board, it was difficult for my dremel to efficiently sand it (may be due to an old bit). Either way, I wouldn't really reccomend this method if you're using the typical superlative plunger head.

[rork]

Use a 1 1/2" hole saw, yo. Seriously, a serviceable set costs like $3 at Harbor Freight. The only real reason to cut out a wooden circle with a scroll saw is to show off your scroll sawing skills.

Also, stick that sumbitch in a vice and go to town on it with a 60 grit sanding drum. It's faster than mixing epoxy by a good bit.

[TxNerfer]

I've got a couple hole saw blades, I have no idea where the attatchment is though, and that is the reason I stuck it in the scroll saw. I actually can't use a scroll saw for my life. Anyways, I assembled the SNAP with the wood catch ramp and the priming was horribly rough. Even after sanding it down as much as I could, I couldn't get it smooth. Personally, I'd just stick with epoxy putty. With my other SNAP which uses epoxy putty as a ramp, it's lasted fine after about 500 primes.

[Y-Brik]

Get a 1" PVC endcap, lop off the part that connects to the pipe (so you have a flat-ish surface), and use that. It's way simple yo, and more durable-Yay PVC!

[Meaker VI]

Fome, on Nov 16 2010, 11:24 PM, said:

I have my doubts about all the wood in the construction, especially in the plunger shaft, i'm not sure it has the elasticity to withstand the abuse of a k26 but I suppose time can only tell. The wooden catch ramp is pretty cool, I'm sure if the wood is hard enough it wouldn't have any durability problems...

Y-Brik, on Nov 29 2010, 11:54 PM, said:

...It's way simple yo, and more durable-Yay PVC!

As a note to all the wood-noobs, not all wood is created equal in terms of 'strength'; in terms of hardness (despite it being classified as "hardwood" or "softwood"), bending strength, rot-resistance, flammability, and most other characteristics. For example, this hardwood (commonly called "Ipe") has the same fire-resistance rating as concrete, and takes 3,684 pounds-force to dent with a .44 caliber ball (Janka Hardness test). Douglass fir, on the other hand, is what we in the US typically build houses out of and is highly flammable, has takes 660 pounds-force to do the same thing. The hardness does have an effect on the bending strength, but to get a better idea of 'strength' of any material, looking at something called a "Modulus of Elasticity " is much better.

Now, while I'm not going to explain Modulus of Elasticity (E) to you, I do have examples; like steel, which has an E of 29,000,000. Carbon fiber is something like 22,000,000; Aluminum is 10,000,000; Concrete (under compression- it does not take tension the same way as compression) is 4,350,000; Ipe is 3,140,000; Oak is 1,600,000 - Pine 1,300,000 (with wood it's important to orient the grain properly, those are the long way); Nylon, which I've seen used for rods, has an E of only around 400,000. Polycarbonate is similar. Other plastics vary, but hopefully you get the idea. And while woods need a certain orientation, plastics and metals need a vary specific temperature range - steel looses something like 50% of it's strength at around 800 degrees F, most plastics melt above 400, Wood does not (It does ignite, however, but will remain as strong as the cross-section of whatever hasn't ignited).

The long and short version: Woods vary tremendously by type- many woods are superior to plastics in terms of raw strength.

[utahnerf]

Damn, I love wood. Looks great, probably functions amazingly. I built one of the MkV revised snapbows, and I love it. I have to try this out, thanks for the design!

P.S. ..... Fuck all the haterz

This post has been edited by utahnerf: 17 December 2010 - 06:38 PM

[Y-Brik]

I forgot to mention my Snap also uses a wood dowel plunger rod (It's 5/8" Oak from Home Depot- there was 2 types of wood, I opted for the heavier one). Works great but be good to it- use a long-ish wood screw (1"+ into the wood), as well as a deep fit on the priming handle- I bored out the tee so the dowel slid in further before adding my screw. Gotta say, I like this better than cpvc for the plunger rod- no fighting with that endcap on the plunger head.

[dizzyduck]

I've been using a 1/2" oak dowel on all of my SNAPs and so far after 200+ shots of each of them, I can't see any wear on them.

It's worth noting that if you use an Ace 62 spring on a 1/2" wooden dowel, you run the risk of getting tiny slivers of wood shaved off of the dowel as you prime it, resulting in splinters.