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Magstrike Bladder To band or not to band?

#1 User is offline   Nobber 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 03:35 PM

Hey everyone, I got a Magstrike yesterday and I plugged Op, gave space to bladder and removed safety. I was searching today on the modifications directory and I saw a write up where it said to band the bladder.
Here's the link: Right Here Notice on the 2nd post, another user (nerfer34, I think) stated his bladder "popped". Now, I don't know if I should actually risk it by banding, or just leave it as if. Of course, I would band if I knew it's safe, since it will increase range (duh). I just want to know if you guys have tried to band it, and did it work for you? A few suggestions would help, and I'd prefer if you actually had a Magstrike other than predicting the outcomes. :cry:


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#2 User is offline   rokor 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 03:41 PM

The answer is in your post....
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#3 User is offline   Nobber 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 03:55 PM

Okay, this is going to sound stupid, but where :cry: ?
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#4 User is offline   silentsnipe 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 04:00 PM

View PostNobber, on Dec 22 2008, 03:55 PM, said:

Okay, this is going to sound stupid, but where :cry: ?

Where nerfer34 said it popped... Sometimes they pop, sometimes they don't. If you want to risk your magstrike, go right ahead.
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#5 User is offline   TantumBull 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 04:54 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain the banding the bladder will only improve ROF. The bladder is what compresses the spring and allows the piston to fire without having to prime the gun after each shot. You would either have to replace the spring inside the piston or band the piston itself to get better ranges. Modding the clip would also help. Best of luck.
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#6 User is offline   rork 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 05:24 PM

TantumBull is correct. Actually, on the Magstrike I'm working on, I'm exploring ways to slow the damn thing down; it's too fast to be useful. The most common misconception regarding the magstrike is that the air from the bladder somehow fires the darts. It does not. Rather, it powers a piston that fires the darts like a springer would, and a reciprocating arm that advances the clip.
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#7 User is offline   BustaNinja 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 05:31 PM

View Postrork, on Dec 22 2008, 05:24 PM, said:

TantumBull is correct. Actually, on the Magstrike I'm working on, I'm exploring ways to slow the damn thing down; it's too fast to be useful. The most common misconception regarding the magstrike is that the air from the bladder somehow fires the darts. It does not. Rather, it powers a piston that fires the darts like a springer would, and a reciprocating arm that advances the clip.

Could you use a bigger, thinner bladder to put less pressure on the air so it would just cycle the arm and piston slower?
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#8 User is offline   CaptainSlug 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 05:33 PM

View Postrork, on Dec 22 2008, 09:24 PM, said:

I'm exploring ways to slow the damn thing down; it's too fast to be useful.

All you need is a flow control valve inbetween the trigger valve and the piston. Adjusting the flow rate will allow you to adjust the time it takes for the piston to reach the pressure level at which it will fire the dart.
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#9 User is offline   imaseoulman 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 06:28 PM

View Postrork, on Dec 22 2008, 06:24 PM, said:

Actually...the most common misconception regarding the magstrike is that the air from the bladder somehow fires the darts. It does not. Rather, it powers a piston that fires the darts like a springer would, and a reciprocating arm that advances the clip.

Actually, that is inaccurate. The piston has no "power stroke." The air that is stored in the bladder, does in fact propel the dart out of the barrel.

Basically the air from the bladder enters the piston/tank system. As the pressure builds up, the piston head is pushed back. After it reaches a certain point, it engages the valve head and pulls it back as well. As it pulls back, the valve opens and the air rushes out and launches the dart.

If you're still skeptical, you can test this by slowly adding air to the piston/tank system. If you can't see all that is happening, and it still seems that is still launching the darts via a standart springer/plunger method, hold onto the part that gets pushed back, not allowing it to return. You'll notice that air still rushes out of the tank just as it did before, with no less force.

How banding the bladder makes a difference:
You are increasing the amount (not volume, but mass, the actual amount of air molecules) of air in the bladder. If you band it (with bike innertube, not rubberbands) you increase the amount of pressure necessary to exand the bladder. So at maximum volume, you may have 80% more air in the bladder under a higher pressure than before. This air fills the piston/tank a bit faster causing it to operate at a slightly higher rate of cycles per second. The more notable difference is the amount of shots you get per fill. Because there is more air in the bladder, and the amount of air necessary to fill the piston/tank hasn't changed, you can fill it more times before the bladder empties.

If you want to increase range:
Band the piston (with a rubber-band). Putting a band around the piston increases the amount of force necessary to push back the piston. So, a higher pressure is needed to create this force. Higher air pressure with the same volume, again, means more air in the tank/piston that can propel the dart forward. (This is like plugging the pump on your again to allow more pressure to build up in the tank).

So, in summation:
Banding the bladder (with bike intertube) slightly increases ROF and can greatly increase the amount of shots you get per bladder fill.
Banding the piston (with a rubberband) improves range.

As far as popping your bladder is concerned, I don't think that's very big of a risk when you band it with bike innertube. I've had the bike innertube "pop" (just a tear in the seam) in my Arachnophobia II which was double layered with bike innertube (a major pain to actually accomplish), but that had more to do with contact with sharp edges than over-pressurization.

This post has been edited by imaseoulman: 02 February 2009 - 07:45 AM

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#10 User is offline   TantumBull 

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 12:19 AM

So wait, it still has a fast air release like normal air guns do? Does this mean I should use an air gun barrel fit on the clip, because I thought I should use a tight fit when I thought the gun was actually spring powered?
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#11 User is offline   Just Some Bob 

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 01:37 AM

View PostTantumBull, on Dec 23 2008, 12:19 AM, said:

So wait, it still has a fast air release like normal air guns do? Does this mean I should use an air gun barrel fit on the clip, because I thought I should use a tight fit when I thought the gun was actually spring powered?


Treat it as an air pressure blaster, period. Because that's what it is.

The spring is just part of the regulating mechanism which "divides" the air pressure into pulses and mechanically advances the magazine.

Although it would be theoretically possible to build a spring blaster with an air-powered cocking mechanism, that's not what any of Nerf's bladder guns do. Wildfire, RF20, PowerClip, MagStrike - all have similar pistons functioning in pretty much the same way.
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#12 User is offline   imaseoulman 

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 07:06 AM

Even though it is an "air-release" blaster, I have gotten better results with tighter barrels. As always, you should experiment with your foam and barrel fit to see what works best.
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#13 User is offline   nerfnerd88 

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 09:04 AM

The bladder itself will not break. The tubing will break, then the seal, but it will take a hell of a lot to get the bladder to split open.

If you are familiar enough with your magstrike that you would feel comfortable replacing any popped tubing then I would do it. And if you don't, then don't. It really only increases ROF which in my opinion is fast enough. I did it with my magstrike but later unbanded it (I didn't like the idea of shooting off 10 rounds in 3/4 of a second)

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#14 User is offline   nerfnerd88 

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 09:10 AM

Quote

So wait, it still has a fast air release like normal air guns do? Does this mean I should use an air gun barrel fit on the clip, because I thought I should use a tight fit when I thought the gun was actually spring powered?


Yes you could cut off the piston and just add a barrel onto that, but you would get very poor ranges. The air release speed is not amazingly quick. It shoots off the whole bladder in a little under a second, but remember that a second is a whole lot of time for the air to release. The dart would just barely leave the barrel because there would be no sudden pressure build up/release.
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#15 User is offline   k9turrent 

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 09:26 AM

View Postnerfnerd88, on Dec 23 2008, 12:10 PM, said:

The dart would just barely leave the barrel because there would be no sudden pressure build up/release.


The way to make the magstrike a good single gun, you need to integrate a at2k for it's good air release.

like the Phoenix
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That's about it. And thanks Angela who helped me with these pictures.. It looks huge in her hands.


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