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#117170 The Best Double Shot Mod Ever

Posted by ambushbug on 25 July 2007 - 09:04 PM in Modifications

Y'know, this mod really makes me think about what can be done with the RFR, Mustang 6, and Clip Tek. If you can remove the Buzzbee shells from the Doubleshot, is it possible to remove them from the other Buzzbee blasters out there? The Mustang 6 would probably end up being better than the Maverick, and the Clip Tek would be awsome. We could probably squeeze 70' of so out of the RFR, and it would all be shell-less! Awsome job, I agree, best Double Shot mod I've seen.


I can't comment on the other blasters but I doubt that breech/CPVCing the RFR would make any improvements - the problem is the tiny plunger - there's no cure for that. In fact, I'm not sure that the ranges would differ from the cpvc shell mod and there would definitely be a loss in terms of RoF



#67971 Buzzbee Fast Action Rifle Mod

Posted by ambushbug on 19 November 2005 - 01:37 AM in Modifications

Nice idea but I still think I'd like the lever better. Using the fingers on my trigger hand to work the lever, I'm sure my RoF would be much faster than pulling the bolt. I will try to shove some barrel material in there as well (I've been meaning to use some spare 9/16 brass for this purpose but haven't got around to it). Have you used it in combo with the CPVC shell mod?

and, oh yeah - I believe you meant "Rapid Fire Rifle" not the "Fast Action Rifle"? (a la Boltsniper).


EDIT: I just tried adding the 9/16 brass barrel extension - no luck. The darts barely leave the barrel (I tried 12" and 8"). I should have known better anyway, the air delivery system (small plunger + airhose) is too wimpy to utilize the brass barrel extension.



#79072 Angels Bbb

Posted by ambushbug on 06 April 2006 - 09:44 PM in Modifications

very nice job on getting around the gravity-fed clip with the cpvc couplers. Also good idea with the deodorant stick clips. Like GeneralPrimevil, I switched to shorter darts (a little over 1.5in) so the dimensions may not be ideal for me but neither is the current clip on my BBB. I suppose, I could easily add "filler" or some custom "walls" to accomodate my darts.

Great work!


EDIT:

P.S. are you worried at all about your weighted stefan falling into the chamber? You may have already considered something like this but I ended up tying some fishing line to my CPVC weight (for "pushing" darts down) to limit how far it falls. Its also tied it to a little bead on the outside of the clip - a pull handle when I'm reloading. Just a thought.



#67624 Double Shot Mod

Posted by ambushbug on 14 November 2005 - 01:10 AM in Modifications

That was the first thing i did, I removed the orange tip first but do you think the barrel can be replaced? with pvc I mean recently I found a whole Batch of industrial size PVC tubing i found it and now i will never run out but im still trying to figure out how to put in a new barrel.

I also saw off the barrel in the RFR. I'm not sure if you can completely replace the barrel as (if I recall correctly), the barrel and the chamber/ejection spring are all one piece (well, two halves). I imagine you could just jam some material down the existing barrel (depending on the diameter). Though I'm not convinced that a new barrel would make it any better as range is only mediocre and the accuracy depends alot on the dart/shell. Its worth trying though, I believe the halves of that barrel unscrew - so you could easily experiment.



#123714 "the Professional" By Airzone

Posted by ambushbug on 20 September 2007 - 08:43 PM in Modifications

Hmm, the assembly reminds me a bit of the SM1500 but its hard to say for sure without a size/scale comparison. The range sounds like its considerably less than the SM1500 though. Regardless, nice find and nice mod.

EDIT: oops - thanks Blister, "SM750" is what I really meant. I don't even have an SM1500 (but that's basically an AT2K, right?)



#65989 4b - The Bacon Bow (semi-automatic Bbb)

Posted by ambushbug on 17 October 2005 - 09:33 AM in Modifications

Oh and maybe I can count or somthing, but my real quick estemate says 3 sentences, but what the hell do I know.

Clearly, you can count but perhaps you should work on spelling (as per the COC).

Better yet, try not to clog up a thread by adding purely pointless sarcasm. Your earlier post (describing the cocking action etc) was useful. The following one wasn't.



#65005 Buzz Bee Rfr + At2k Integration

Posted by ambushbug on 04 October 2005 - 02:40 AM in Modifications

My goal was to improve the range of the Rapid Fire Rifle without losing the clip-loading feature. What I did was to integrate the air tank system of the Airtech2000 into the RFR.

the original RFR guts looked like this (note: I sawed off the barrel previously)
Posted Image

I hooked up the new airtank where the old spring and plunger used to be (ignore the trigger/valve mechanism on the left of the red goo-meter - I ended up changing that; see the next pic)
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To fit the airtank in. I had to do some considerable hacking/sanding of the existing plunger/spring frame. I seriously need to invest in a Dremel kit.
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On the other half of the rifle chassis, I drilled a hole to allow the "liquitron" goo meter protrude. Yeah I kept the goo, partly cause I was too lazy to reroute the airlines and partly for effect. I also drilled a hole for the airhose (between aritank and pump).
Posted Image

I also cut down the white plastic arm (that connected the lever to the spring) so as not to interfere with the airtank. To allow the shell-ejecting mechanism to work, I glued a small piece of plastic to extend the orange ejection trigger - this allows the sawed down lever arm to trip the ejection trigger. Thus, the lever/clip feeding system works as usual. (sorry - no pic)

After experimenting on a few different valve-trigger mechanisms, I settled on a low tech but reliable solution - steel wire (for hanging picture frames). I secure this to the end of the valve pin. Notice there's also an orange piece (scrap from amodded NF) glued to the airtank to support it against the old spring frame.
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I drilled a hole in the existing RFR finger trigger to secure the other end of the wire
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After ALOT of trial and error and troubleshooting, I put it back together. Assembled it looks like this.
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I still haven't mounted the pump. I'll probably keep it (horizontally) on the right side of the blaster so I can cock the lever and pump with the same hand. I'll probably also change the pump handle.

Cosmetically the fit wasn't perfect as even after cutting out some space for the protruding airline, the airtank causes a bit of a bulge in the chassis and from above you can see a gap (even when the screws are tightened) - oh well.
Posted Image

Now for ranges:
After about 3 1/2 full pumps, it gets about 45-50 feet (stock darts). That's only about 10 feet more than the stock(springer) version with the same dart/shell. I figure, I can get even better range with an extra pump or two (I plugged the over-pressure release valve) but I'm a still little of a wuss when it comes to pumping the gun. After spending 2 days modding this thing, I didn't want to immediately bust the airtank.

In any case, the integration was moderately successful, it gets slightly better range than the stock RFR and is considerably quieter. It hasn't lost its clip-loading capability though its RoF is obviously a little lower because of the pumping. When I get around to it, I'll work on the pump handle and give it a new paintjob.

Again, I'm a nerf noob and this is my first attempt at an integration but I hope it gives you guys some ideas (maybe of what not to do :D ) for your own mods.



#90441 Pump Shotgun Pump-action/clip Mod

Posted by ambushbug on 25 September 2006 - 04:13 AM in Modifications

A while back, I posted some internal pics of this
Posted Image
off-brand ball gun (aka the ERTL FS-1010 Pump Shotgun) I bought at a local Bass Pro shop. Given the internals, I was pretty optimistic of its potential. I brassed it and was pretty happy with its performance singled
Posted Image.

Its got great range (think Max Shot) and its airseal is so tight that darts can be muzzle loaded in the 8" brass barrel (9/16") and get sucked the rear of the barrel when cocked. This makes for a good RoF with no breeching necessary.

(NOTE* for any mod using a 9/16" barrel, be sure to jam some PETG or brass of smaller inner diameter in the back of the barrel to prevent darts from getting sucked right into the plunger.)


But I had been thinking of ways to turn this thing into an even more formidable weapon in terms of ammo load and RoF. I was trying to think of a way to clip-mod this in a way similar to my version of Piss Bacon's BBB mod (aka the Bacon Bow). Of course the problem was that the shotgun, like most Nerf blasters, lacked the BBB's unique cocking mechanism that allows the barrel/breech system to fire darts at a position closest to the plunger. I ended up buying another ERTL shotgun recently and went to work.

Well, my solution was to split the handle of the existing shotgun pump into two sections (front and rear). The front handle still functions to cock the plunger but the rear can now move independently to work a breech, sliding the brass (9/16") barrel backwards over the dart. Not sure what to call this type of mechanism - kinda like pump and bolt action at the same time.

I'll do my best to explain what I did but I'm afraid I didn't have a camera available during some of the crucial early steps. Hopefully though, the pics will give you an idea and you can fill in the blanks. I don't talk about replacing the existing barrel and installing the new barrel/breech as Forsaken Angel already provided a good write up for the the former and the latter was performed by a procedure that I used when making my Bacon Bow.

The "arm" used to link the rear handle to the barrel/breech consisted of some spare black plastic tubing (just lying around) and a broken aluminum tent stake
Posted Image.
The blunt end of the stake was jammed very tightly into some PETG do facilitate gluing to the inside of the rear handle. The pointy tip of the tent stake was eventually jammed into the hollow black plastic tube and secured with some e-tape and a tightened hose clamp.

The handles were hacked from the original pump - here are the handles after the cutting was already done
Posted Image.
Note the position of the tent stake.

To accomodate the backwards sliding (closed breech) arm (with hose clamp), I had to hack/sand out some space in the bottom of the front handle
Posted Image.


To install the stake, I screwed the rear handle back together and once I got everything in position, I used some krazy glue to attach it and a pile of hotglue around it to support the stake. But be careful not to add too much glue - there still need to be space to accommodate a screw when the rear handle is slid forward (open breech)
Posted Image. The black plastic arm extension connected to the 9/16"barrel via a series of hose clamps and a CT clamp
Posted Image.

The new breech (19/32" brass) was mounted to the plunger with some e-tape and a piece of PVC coupler (gray thing).
Posted Image


more in a sec (image limits).....

I was afraid the connection was weak so I took some old (green) plastic tubing and cut out a ring to add support to the junction between the PVC coupler and the (brown) plunger tube
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Then I wrapped the ring in black e-tape
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To allow it to accommodate my clips, I added a clip guide cut from some scrap transparent orange PETG
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I glued it to the the PVC coupler opposite from the breech opening
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I also secured this connection with a (white) ziptie
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My clip slides into position and is held by the guide. Since the clip is spring fed, I keep it in a semi-sideways position
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But since the breech can still be rotated, the clip can also be mounted vertically (above) - so, in theory, it can also accommodate gravity-fed clips
Posted Image

I'm very happy with the result. I just need to make more clips or ones of greater capacity. I am currently working on a 25-round drum-magazine. I'll write it up if it works. If it does, I might not want to buy that Longshot anymore.

Sorry - no official ranges (I live in a tiny apartment in the downtown core). And I didn't bother to do anything with the plunger/internals (Forsaken Angel posted a clever way of maximizing the air delivery) as when I war (seldom), it is usually indoors where anything beyond 60 feet is a bit of overkill - but this thing is STILL a welt-bringer!


In case you don't get how it works here's some (crappy) video of:
the pump/breech mechanism
installing the clip and firing (that carboard target/trap is point blank)
single breech-loading (e.g. if I'm out of clips)


I hope you found this stimulating! Comments?



#90494 Pump Shotgun Pump-action/clip Mod

Posted by ambushbug on 25 September 2006 - 09:56 PM in Modifications

[/quote]

Ambush bug you son of a bitch. :wacko:
I was talking about doing something like this a while back but got distracted with other guns, life, women, work.
I like your mod functionally but I think it is a little hideous.
Now I am inspired to make yet another pumpshotgun mod with clip. Damn you for making me do this.
When I am done with my 3 current projects I will start on it. The LS will have to wait.
[/quote]


Yeah, it could be more fancy (i.e. the thing was made from alot of scrap material in about three hours - but is structurally sound considering I work without a dremel or epoxy) but I had to get the little bugger done ASAP. Not for use or anything, I'm just obsessive compulsive when I'm curious to try something out. So, for the sake of concentrating on writing up my goddamn thesis, salvaging my career (and maybe my marriage) I'm okay with the gun looking like ass.... :unsure:

Glad to be spreading the disease of distraction..... and as always, I look forward to seeing what unholy device you can conjure up.



#90463 Pump Shotgun Pump-action/clip Mod

Posted by ambushbug on 25 September 2006 - 03:36 PM in Modifications

[quote name='six-five-two' date='Sep 25 2006, 10:03 AM' post='90457']
It is like Forsaken Angels mod but with a clip. Nice mod, I think I may get one of these but there are no bass pro shops around. How much are they?


Actually, I think there's a little more nuance to it than merely adding a clip. The clip is the easy part - its getting the breech to work simultaneously with the pump that was the point of this mod (that may not have been apparent in the pics or the crappy video). If this is unclear, let me know and I'll try to get some better video.

And I apologize for not including some links in the writeup - I originally intended to "edit" and add links for a bunch of previous mods I referenced:
- my old write up of the Ertl FS-1010 internals
- the original Bacon Bow mod that inspired this
- Forsaken Angel's plunger modifications
- the assemby of my own peculiar clip (originally designed for my version of the Bacon Bow)

however, I had difficulties in getting the edits accepted (the write up was in two separate messages at first but the editor function seemed to consolidate the two, putting the 'edited' version over the image limit). Long story short, sorry for this double-post but it has neccesary reference information.


EDIT:

six-five-two: the darts in the videos/pics are my own custom ammo made from Buzz Bee stock darts. They're cut down to 1.5" and tipped with a small "puck" of (pre-cut, cold) hotglue and a craft bead, sealed with (melted) hotglue. They're experimental ammo right now (I call 'em 'Cyclops' darts - b/c to me, the tip looks like a single eye). Better darts than my other stefans (but I AM terrible at making regular stefans).

General Cole: the 'travel' on the breech (assuming I understand correctly) is a little under 3" (7.2 cm).



#68081 Speedloader Mod

Posted by ambushbug on 21 November 2005 - 01:09 AM in Modifications

Nice mod. I got one that I found in the clearance section at my local WalMart back in August. It was the only one I've ever seen and the box it was in looked pretty mauled (it was missing most of the darts) - so I'm not sure if arrived as a return or something. But judging from the photos on the back of the box (showing the old colour schemes for the Max Shot and Triple Shot) I don't think the speedloader is new - just not universally available. In fact, Drano briefly mentioned doing a turret seal mod on the Speed Loader back in July:

http://nerfhaven.com...hl=speed loader

He (?) was nice enough to give a vague description when I PMed him but there was never a write-up.

Anyway, thanks for the write-up, I'm gonna try the brass. Something's also gotta be done about the pump/cocking handle. I find it terribly uncomfortable.



#92087 Usb Missile Launcher

Posted by ambushbug on 17 October 2006 - 02:43 PM in General Nerf

We also play with all thed lights off so it wouldnt be visible.


but presumably the monitor would be. Unless you managed to hook up a USB extension cable long enough to control the launcher (and a camera) from a different room.

Doesn't sound that useful but it sure looks like fun.



#64035 Your Armory

Posted by ambushbug on 21 September 2005 - 12:31 AM in General Nerf

here's mine (nothing spectacular).....


Buzz Bee RFR (2x)
Lanard Max Shot (modded with removable barrels - a single shot and a turret made from an Ertl rapid fire blowgun)
NF (modded)
Wookiee Bowcaster (modded)
Lanard Speed Loader
Ertl FS 1010 Rifle

plus, I managed to kill a Buzz Bee Air Bazooka and a Tek 6


Posted Image



#67623 Chewbacca's2k

Posted by ambushbug on 14 November 2005 - 12:36 AM in Modifications

I cut out a rectangular piece (the breech) in a 12" pipe of a 9/16 brass. This was destined to become the barrel (extension) and a sleeve over the 17/32 stub. I had to sand down a little of the casing to accommodate the brass barrel.
Posted Image


Finding a way to keep the existing trigger was a bit of an issue - I'm not crazy about using a key-ring for a trigger. Plus given the location of the tank, a key-ring would be difficult to pull with the "trigger hand". I tried a few things (which resulted in a few unsightly holes in the casing) but eventually settled upon a "wheel" as a point of leverage for my trigger system. This is actually just 2 old rollerblade bearings sandwiching a rubber o-ring and held together by duct-tape and hotglue - I hope it holds. The wheel fits over an existing screw mount in the casing (which I trimmed and wrapped with a tiny bit of e-tape). I ran a piece of (picture frame-hanging) wire from the trigger to the pressure-release pin on the the tank.
Posted Image


I used one (ball-shaped) tip of the "bow" to make a handle for the bolt. I secured this to 2 adjustable ring/hose clamps with some spare screws. These already had holes to accommodate the screws. I put a small piece of craft foam between the clamps and the barrel to secure them to the barrel without warping the barrel from overtightening (because the screw heads are in contact with the outer diameter of the barrel).
Posted Image


I kept the ammo-holders on the side of the gun (had to cut out some plastic to allow it to be screwed back in its original postition. I also kept the scope (but moved it to the outside of the casing and secured it with velcro - so its removable). Yeah, like all scopes, not very useful but it looks cool (and was part of the original look).
Posted Image


Finished! Just had to lube up the barrel assembly.
Posted Image


How it works (in case you haven't already inferred...): using the bolt, the long barrel is drawn forward to open the breech. Dart goes in. Pull back the bolt to seal the barrel. A few pumps and ...fire. In the future, I may also try to add a SSPB in the casing below the barrel.


Shortcomings:
-pump handle - In retrospect, the pump handle being the stock/grip makes for a less than comfortable grip - and the grip was tiny to begin with. I considered installing it underneath the barrel (like the original 2k) but given the shape of the casing and the length of the pump hose, I stuck with the stock. Still alright for two-handed use).
- trigger - the trigger is a little hard to pull (depending on how pressurized the tank is) but I haven't thought of a better, smoother way. Yet. Given that, I might add some rubber tubing to the front edge of the trigger to make it a bit more comfortabel when pulling the trigger.
- range - I'm a little disappointed because I heard so many good things about singled at2ks. This one only gets about 50 feet (stefans). The airseals all seem fine. The barrel might be a little long (about 10 'effective' inches). I know my stefans suck - sometimes they don't leave the barrel, partly because the FBR is crooked and partly because they are not a great fit. I've tried using stefans made from broken stock darts and they seem to do much better. I'll have to tinker a bit more.


Anyway, still not my favourite in my arsenal but I'm happy that the gun is alive and I managed to overcome some technical difficulties. Only my second integration and my first breech so it was a learning experience. Any comments/advice is appreciated.



#67622 Chewbacca's2k

Posted by ambushbug on 14 November 2005 - 12:35 AM in Modifications

A few months ago, a buddy gave me a Wookiee Bowcaster (Hasbro/Star Wars).
The thing sucked out of the box; probably < 15 feet. I first tried to do a CPVC barrel mod but even though the CPVC added about 10 feet to the range, the tiny plunger and length of hose from plunger to muzzle were clearly killing it. Since I had an AT2k hanging around (and though I know many seem to love the 2k, I personally am not a big fan), I figured that a transplant could turn the very cool-looking wookiee blaster into a usable one. The existing design also made me think that this might be a particularly good one to "breech".

here's what I started with (this pic is post-CPVC). The cosmetic "bow" is not in the pic.
Posted Image


Check out the internals. The brown pipe hides the airtubing. No wonder the thing has crappy range.
Posted Image


Just to give you an idea of the plunger size (or lack thereof)....
Posted Image


The first thing I did was pull the airtank from the AT2k. I got rid of the orange goo-meter and used some plumber's goop to connect the pump hose to the tank. I cut a small stub (~ 2") of 17/32 brass and used some e-tape and goop to secure it to the tank nozzle (I shaved about 3/4" off the nozzle). The forward facing end of the stub was filed down to facilitate smooth sliding of the breech/barrel (discussed further down)
Posted Image


Next, I cut out some space in the bowcaster's casing to make space for the airtank.
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Same goes for the pump. I made space in the stock. Both were secured to the casing with goop.
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to be continued... (maximums on images...)



#67652 Chewbacca's2k

Posted by ambushbug on 14 November 2005 - 08:08 PM in Modifications

That very nice, it almost looks like the gun came that way. Did you remember to plug the overpressure release valve on the at2k?

Thanks for the comments. I may take peoples' advice and relocate the pump. And I didn't plug the over-pressure valve in this one but I frequently swap it with an extra pump handle that is. That way, when I loan it to someone who might forget about over-pumping, I let them use the "safe" handle.



#173510 Pump Shotgun 2k Integration.

Posted by ambushbug on 29 August 2008 - 09:18 PM in Modifications

Very nice integration! I did a sm750 + ERTL pump shotgun combo a while back, though yours looks way nicer than mine (I didn't bother to do the pump relocation to the stock like you did; nor is mine painted). One thing though that I prefer on mine over yours is that I added a thumb-activated trigger (an upside down trigger from another toy, installed where the rear sight is - simply connected to the SM750 pump via steel wire; ugly but it works well); I personally never liked the 'ring' triggers as they are pretty awkward to discharge without changing aiming/firing position.

In response to the comment by Banshee saying that he/she likes integrating blasters that are complementary - I agree - that's why I use the sm750 as for a 'shotgun' effect (I load multiple darts in the barrel) and I'm sure you've thought of this too.

anyway - good job.

--edit--
I am on crack... it occurred to me that of course I didn't do a pump relocation because the SM750's pump and tank are one piece... unlike the 2k that is described here. Anyway, the comment regarding the ring/trigger still applies...



#117052 Latest From Telekinetic Labs

Posted by ambushbug on 24 July 2007 - 09:58 PM in Modifications

[/quote]
I would use a Torsion spring (they don´t wear out or become brittle as fast as rubberbands)this type of Spring is used in Mousetraps.

[/quote]



I am very intrigued about the drum-mag as well. I had tried a few things out but it never materialized (I'm clearly not as determined/clever as you are). In terms of spring ideas, I pulled apart a cheap timer (kitchen counter-top style) that I bought at the dollar store. It might be similar to the "pull-back" toy car or "wind-up" toy idea you mentioned - maybe it might provide what you need.

I'd also love to see the finished prototype in action (e.g. a video). Good work!



#129425 I Give You...cerberus

Posted by ambushbug on 11 November 2007 - 12:56 PM in Modifications

Functional, I'm sure but 'integrations' usually mean something different than merely gluing one blaster to another (see NF-sspb integration).



#93846 Rapidfire Shotgun Mod

Posted by ambushbug on 07 November 2006 - 04:28 PM in Modifications

Wow, 12 shots! I had no idea.

Range AND high ammo load - I never guessed it could get better than the FS 1010 (pump ballgun).
Hopefully this will be available in my area.

If anyone manages to get some internal pics up, that would be great!



#64425 New Nerf Guns

Posted by ambushbug on 26 September 2005 - 11:06 PM in General Nerf

Speaking about lanard guns where can I get a max shot? Is there any place I can get one I want to get one or two before they are outa stock. I hope they still sell them. Don't tell me they don't sell them anymore... The triple shot and single shot are shit but its big brother the max shot is a beast. I need one.

I've seen a few max shots (the newer blue/silver shell - not the red/blue) still hanging around some of the Wal Marts in my area (S. Ontario)- and I hope to pick them up for myself. Sorry- I'm not trying to gloat - I just want to point out that some stragglers are still out there and might still pop up by chance (e.g. if things get stuck in a corner of the storage warehouse or get returned - God bless Wal Mart for accepting returns under almost any conditions). For example, at another Wal-Mart, I picked up a Lanard Speed Loader (okay, maybe nothing to get too excited about but I never saw it before) and at a third walmart, (actually just last week), I found a pair of AT2Ks on the clearance aisle (7$ CAD each). The boxes were old and ratty (and one was missing all the stock darts) and the copyright on the back was 2002! So yeah, you kinda have to be lucky but if you search the WalMarts in your area (every now and then), there's still a chance that you'll find something good. Worst case, there's also the chance of re-release....



#120332 I Made A Ammo Cartridge!

Posted by ambushbug on 18 August 2007 - 08:07 PM in Homemades

Posted Image


So stupid easy, it works! Put 24 micros {I used stock} in the box (3 rows of 8).
It works pretty well until there are like 4 left then it gets a little harder.



I agree; "stupid" is right. I can't believe you even bothered to start this thread. Seriously, a (second rate) writeup for a box to carry darts in? If you choose to use this for yourself, fine - but I don't think anyone with an intact cerebral cortex really needs instructions on how to cut out some cardboard from a box. Most people use this forum with more discretion (i.e. blasters made from scratch).



#78005 Semi-automatic 12 Shot Bbb

Posted by ambushbug on 29 March 2006 - 01:24 AM in Modifications

  But, can you explain the clip system? Thanks!

judging from the video and the pics, I believe the forward motion (just prior to re-cocking the spring) slides that thin purple "guide rod" forward, forcing air through the vinyl tubing, pushing all the darts in the clip down. As a result the dart closes to the front/bottom gets loaded into the barrel and... fire!

Nice mod - I never would have thought of that. I may try this out - though my 3B has already used that space (the sliding rod) to create a breech/bolt system similar to the "4B" (inspired by Piss Bacon's and Lukeinator's mods). I may have to pick up another one.

A few questions:

1) how did you figure out how much vinyl tubing (air volume) was required to advance one dart?

2) how does the Y-junction between the clip and barrel work so smoothly? Is the barrel the same diameter as the clip?

3) what are the ranges like? Suffer at all compared to the clip-less? Presumably, this would still let you use long barrels, right?



#63805 Internals Of Ertl Fs-1010

Posted by ambushbug on 18 September 2005 - 12:13 AM in Modifications

Nice job...

HEY...I am 5 minutes away from the Bass Pro Shop ambushbug. In Vaughan Mills right? Well if you’re interested, I and a bunch of other Canadian nerfers have our own little clan, CFM. We would love for you to stop by and join us for one of our wars...what do you think?




cool. I'm new to this, but it sounds like fun. I'll PM you.



#63775 Internals Of Ertl Fs-1010

Posted by ambushbug on 17 September 2005 - 12:07 PM in Modifications

This write up is not as much of a mod as it is one to let people see the internals of this blaster. I figure the blaster has some potential but most people have stayed away from it because it’s non-nerf gun and its overpriced ($34 Canadian). So I’m hoping that by showing the internals, anyone considering this blaster will know in advance what they’re getting themselves into (I personally, try to research in advance -via mod pages- the internals of a blaster before I buy one).

I originally picked up this gun from a Bass Pro Shop (in Vaughan, Ontario) for my nephew. It’s a ball gun and (stock) shoots only about 10 feet. However, the blaster has a realistic look and feel, plus I was optimistic of its potential for having a pretty large plunger (judging by the cylindrical shape of the front portion). So I bought one for myself.

Turns out the blaster does have a decent sized plunger and is very easy to barrel mod (the orange barrel for the balls easily removed by unscrewing two plainly visible screws) . Unfortunately, the pics I’ve attached are only the ‘after’ pics as I did a barrel mod (shoots micros) a few weeks ago. The barrel is actually one of those orange 'shotgun' shells Posted Image that come with the Buzz Bee rifles (the double shot and rapid fire). Not as tight as CPVC (which was my other alternative) which means a little less range but better accuracy and reloading times. With stock micros (yeah – I use stock because: 1) I play indoors with my nephews, and 2) I make the WORST stefans ever), I get about 50 feet and very good accuracy (obviously depending on how straight the dart is) - a little less range than my Lanard Max Shot (with the same barrel) but I’d bet a spring stretch/replacement would do wonders. In the future, I may try to brass mod this baby. What I like about this blaster is its feel. Aiming it is pretty intuitive (i.e. unlike my Max Shot, which I had to “learn” to aim). Well, you can decide for yourself if this is a potentially good primary weapon. Some of you mod geniuses out there could probably turn this into a nerfer favourite.

Anyway, I hope this helps anyone who has been considering this blaster (I did a search and recall seeing another member mention, but not necessarily buy, the blaster). If this was at all helpful, please let me know, because I can also show you pics of the guts of other, less familiar guns (e.g. the Buzz Bee Rapid Fire Rifle). pics below.....



the blaster (post-mod). The big orange thing was for holding up to three balls

Posted Image


opening 'er up is easy. Just remember to remove the screws in the pump first (to reveal more screws)

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immediately below the plunger tube is the thingy (white silicon/nylon rod) that allows the pump to cock the spring

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the catch and trigger are pretty simple

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here are the plunger and spring. Hopefully, ths scale will give you an idea of their size

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I tend to fill up dead space (here, the stock) with packing foam when modding my blasters

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#68399 Knives/swords Collections

Posted by ambushbug on 26 November 2005 - 11:27 PM in Off Topic

I used to be into collecting bladed things when I was younger. Most weren't very good quality - good quality blades are pretty expensive. I was particularly into the Japanese swords but alot of the replica stuff is pretty much crap, the blades are the typical stainless steel "made in Taiwan" stuff. They look good but don't really have a nice balance. That's cause most have a very short tang (the portion of the steel that is hidden in the handle.

At around first-year university I started studying Japanese sword arts/ways (Kendo and Iaido) and kept up for about 4 years (Kendo - only 3 years Iai). I pawned most of the stuff I had for a Iai-to (a practice sword for Iai). These are typically alloy blades - can't be sharpened and a little flexible - but the look and feel are (so I'm told) very authentic. Because Iaido practice (the "way of drawing the sword") entails alot of use (swinging, not cutting), replicas pretty much break after a couple of weeks and their uneven balance makes for really sore wrists.

Anyway, I haven't kept up but I still keep the Iaito on display. The fittings are plain black and its got a pretty nice tsuba (the circular handguard) molded in a design that looks like a crane with spread wings. I also have a spare tsuba that is pretty plain but it was used by my (former) Sensei so I keep it around for sentimental reasons. I always told myself that "when" I got to a reasonable skill level I would use it - yeah right!

I also keep a folding (lockback) knife for my camping/hiking stuff. Its made by Cold Steel. It cost me an arm and a leg but its definitely the strongest/most reliable blade I've owned.

I have an old balisong (that's the filipino name for a butterfly knife). The handle is ox horn/brass but is coming apart. The blade is very strong but quite rusty. These are actually illegal in Canada but I only keep it at home.

Also I have two machetes. One I got when I was doing research in Trinidad (a Martindale brand). Everybody there (including old ladies) uses them as all-purpose gardening/farming tools. That one still comes with me to camping trips (its a very functional camp hatchet and campfire prod). Also found my dad's old "bolo" machete from the Philippines. The thing is so rusty that it looks like it was salvaged from the Titanic. Again, not used but kept for sentimental reasons.

That's it - Sorry, I don't have pictures handy.


And my two cents on the whole ninja stuff. Though (overly) glamourized by hollywood, there's not very much account of any ninjas and any particular prowess with the sword. They were mostly spies (notably for Toyotomi Hideyoshi in the wars preceding the last Shogunate) who probably had to do some fighting but probably with a whole mish-mash of different weapons (i.e. whatever was available). So I don't think there is very much evidence of what a real "ninja sword" should look like.



#67681 A New Custom Dart

Posted by ambushbug on 15 November 2005 - 12:39 PM in General Nerf

cool idea, I think I'll try that. I suppose another advantage to list in your "why"s is that, like stock darts, they probably won't leave the same welts that a hotglue/steel shot stefan would. Which equals less dents in the drywall and safe for the little kids.

Does the Plasti-Dip pour well? I'm wondering whether the material could be applied to fbr with a half-inch (or so) drilled out of the centre. Dripping it in a hole (with disposaable pipettes?) in fbr might mean that the tip wouldn't be of larger diameter than the rest of the dart and, thus, the dart could be used in barrel-modded blasters. And presumably, it could still be used in combination with weights to get heavier stefans but with a slightly friendlier punch (compared to hotglue).



#118070 Tagball

Posted by ambushbug on 02 August 2007 - 07:20 PM in General Nerf

My friend has these, and they can shoot, without modification, taggers and stephans. Hell, you can even shoot a AA battery out of it. It's basically a slingshot (NOT a nerf slingshot) with a trigger. It flings the ammo with about the same force as a well modded Nitefinder. They are pretty cool, but my friend never showed me how well the original tag-balls work. I think that he said they can go 50 ft flat.


That's all well and good, but what is the accuracy? There's no point in slinging something for 60+ feet if it won't hit its target.



whether its slingshots or NERF, we all know its often the ammo - not the launcher - that determines accuracy.
In any case, if the ammo is indeed less than ideal, a trigger-style slingshot that can launch crappy ammo 50 feet might have some mod potential for shooting nerf darts/stefans.



#120561 Tagball

Posted by ambushbug on 20 August 2007 - 05:32 PM in General Nerf

:nugget:

It looks to me as if these have no purpose. For $7, I can get a Nite Finder and hit 70+ feet. For $15, I can get a Max Shot and hit 130+ feet. For $30, I can get a Longshot and hit 100+ feet with an awesome rate of fire. These are all cheaper options than a $42 "Tagball" gun that only hits 70 feet. They are all better options. Therefore, Tagball guns are not a reasonable option for the average Nerfer, and will not appear in many arsenals.



I agree that the price tag (if that is indeed the price) is steep but my interest isn't in 'bang for the buck' - its the adventure/risk of modding something new (i.e. different from the status quo). Personally, I could give a rat's ass about all the blasters people get boners over once they come out (e.g. the Maverick, the Longshot, Spidey/Venom dart tag set) because everyone and their grandma is working on modding it. I'm glad people are shelling out $$ and investing time/creativity in modding them but I don't want to bother with them (most of the time).

I'm really more interested in the ammo than the blaster but how people should spend their money is only of concern to the spender. If I recall, people said the ERTL pump shotgun was overpriced but I know of a few people who'd swear by them (myself included). Anyway, this thread wasn't intended as a "what is your opinion on this blaster" thread. It was (as indicated in the subheader) more of an "can anyone tell me anything about this" thread.

I'm not the "average nerfer", nor is my arsenal.



#117938 Tagball

Posted by ambushbug on 01 August 2007 - 08:22 PM in General Nerf

I stumbled upon this thing while surfing the web for something completely different.

It appears to be another "safer", low tech and less messy version of paintball. Judging from the descriptions on the website, the ammo are 19mm (~ 3/4") puffballs that stick to hook/loop velcro targets (on the body or otherwise).
The 'blaster' is powered by surgical tubing (slingshot-esque) and is similar in principal to some homemades I've seen on this site.

Anyone had any experience with it? I'm intrigued about the possibility of modifying the blaster (e.g. add a plunger) to shoot darts/stefans and/or use the ammo for Nerf blasters (e.g. obviously with larger ID barrels than typically used). I'm a little skeptical of whether the ammo would have the correct weight or be able to provide a good airseal but its hard to say just from looking. The prospect of spherical but soft ammo is something that I find appealing (for gravity-fed hoppers/clips) and, if I recall, was also the impetus for a post by Tidge a long time ago. I never did hear whether or not he got a chance to try any of the ideas out.



#120709 "silenced" Longshot

Posted by ambushbug on 21 August 2007 - 10:51 PM in Modifications

Actually, I believe Forsakenangel24 made a working barrel silencer for his Titan. I will update this post with a link later.

He meant on spring guns. The noise comes from the plunger head's impact with the end of the plunger tube, not from air escaping the barrel.

privateer: Way to be an ass. I was giving you advice that is going to help you, should you take the time to read it.




Hey SHA: don't get all riled up. Privateer is being a bit prickly because everyone immediately called him a bullshitter. A call which, I think, he answered - so let him have his victory. I agree with your advice but it is not necesary to have the 'last word'.

Privateer: kudos - though I was willing to take your word for it from the beginning. Not because I'm particularly trusting but because 'silencing' like 'ranges' all seem particularly unquantifiable (in a standardized way) that means that its hardly worth voicing any skepticism (if its not something I could actually test myself anyway).
But seriously: "after drinking many Bud Lights"? Now THAT's something I find hard to believe; that stuff is hardly potable......



#78608 It Needs A Name Darnit!

Posted by ambushbug on 03 April 2006 - 06:03 PM in Modifications

Pretty cool. Though, I was thinking you could try what Nerf Monkey assumed you did - let the sliding rod pump the SM1500. Or at least change the pump handle on the SM1500 (to allow for easier access to the pump).

How does the trigger for the 1.5k work? It would be cool if you could devise one that can be fired with the front handle/grip.

Is it front-heavy?

A name...... "Orthrus" (the two-headed monster in Greek mythology)....but it sounds way too much like "orifice"...



#63906 Buzz Bee Rapid Fire Rifle Guts

Posted by ambushbug on 19 September 2005 - 02:46 AM in Modifications

Wait, did I miss something? How did you get that gun? I haven't seen anything about the rff (rapid fire rifle) being out posted.

the RFRs are pretty common at WalMarts in my area (Toronto) and have been out for a while (I think I got mine in early August).



#63811 Buzz Bee Rapid Fire Rifle Guts

Posted by ambushbug on 18 September 2005 - 02:30 AM in Modifications

as requested by flamebo388 (in an earlier thread), here are some pics of the internals of the clip-fed Buzz Bee blaster:

it uses ammo pre-loaded into these orange shells (same as Buzz Bee Double Shot). Stock clips hold six. But you can also load an extra round in "the pipe" (chamber) before inserting the clip.
Posted Image

here is the stock version (well, I sawed the barrel off this one). It went for 12 bucks CAD$ at Wal-Mart
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for a basic view of the internals, you don't need to unscrew the barrel or bolt screws (on the yellow parts - on the current version of the blaster)
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note that the plunger isn't very big. Nor is the airhose that runs from plunger tube to the chamber. The spring currently mounted (the silver one) is actually one I put in to try and increase the velocity. The original (the black one) is below the spring/plunger. Although the new spring is stronger, it hasn't made much of a difference in range. It only made the thing way louder. More importantly, it does not compress to the same extent as the original and thus, prevents the bolt from sliding back far enough to let the clip feed shells properly into the breech/chamber.
Posted Image

there are a few things going on in here. The blue lever cocks the spring while sliding the bolt back (to let the shell/cartridge move up into the breech).
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When the lever is returned to the closed position, the bolt pushes the shell into the chamber and seals it (the black o rings). Also notice that between the O rings, there is a hole in the bolt. That hole allows airflow into the chamber when the trigger is pulled/the spring/plunger is released.
Posted Image

the orange thing on the right is part of the trigger. The orange thing on the left is part of the mechanism for ejecting spent shells (triggered when the white rod holding the spring is cocked back)
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this is my blaster (without significant modification - only spraypaint). There are several velcro tabs on the blaster for attachments I've devised to catch spent shells. The velcro on the clips lets me stick two of them together (one upside down) for faster clip-changes.
Posted Image

This one only gets about 35-40 feet with stock micros but I'm trying to devise something (i.e. integrating a Lanard MaxShot plunger/spring and correspondingly larger gauge airhose) to increase its range. I wonder if even a nite-finder spring would do some good.

Also beware, if you don't use a smooth (though not necessarily slow) motion when cranking the lever, the ammo may jam. But after some practice, this blaster is pretty good for short/mid ranges (indoors).
I suppose length of a war is also an issue because unless you buy enough blasters (for extra clips), reloading shells and magazines is not as easy as groping for a dart and jamming it in a muzzle-loading blaster. I've tried to remedy this by buying a bunch of shell/dart refill packs and keeping them in an ammo bandolier (after Boltsniper). When the magazines are spent, shells can be directly loaded into the breech (without removing the magazine).
I figure it makes a decent (albeit, large) secondary. Not as compact as a Mav or Firefly but easier to reload (until you run out of clips). Again, you can decide for yourself.
I think I'm also gonna try to couple it with a modded maxshot. The rifle-style handle combined with the pistol-grip of the max shot should work well together. Not to mention, it gives the MS a stock.

Anyway, if I acquire any more "uncommon" blasters, I'll try to post more pics. Hopefully, others will do the same.



#69935 Open Letter To New Members And Admins

Posted by ambushbug on 27 December 2005 - 02:09 AM in General Nerf

So what do I know? I've only been here a few months, I don't post that much and I don't belong to any other forums. But in my profession (science), only peer-reviewed material is published for mass consumption. Although this ensures that all published material is relatively bullshit-free, this is a proces that takes way too long to be effective for a forum. However, another hallmark of the exchanges of ideas/opinions in science is that (barring a few "flame-like" articles), any papers that are not on point are pretty much dismissed by the community. That is, nobody cites them and an increasing number of researchers learn to ignore their work. So basically, when a researcher starts talking bullshit, other scientists are smart enough to stop listening. This phenomoenon is not (by any stretch) specific to research; it happens in music, arts and business (etc.) as well.
I'm wondering if that can apply to forums too. Sure, seeing countless repeats of pointless posts is annoying but (for a non-mod) member, it takes less time to read a stupid post than to reply to it. I'm sure most have started to figure out certain members who are less "productive" than others. I have. And, accordingly, I stop reading posts from these people. I guess I'm in agreement with Duxbarian; if we don't bother with stupid posts, then that's punishment enough. And the remedy is not in the hands of moderators but everyday members.



#126792 Rfr---shotgun?

Posted by ambushbug on 20 October 2007 - 09:56 PM in Modifications

If you have a rfr please try something like this so this speculation ends...The rod through the lever could be further down, but the leverage would work...The faux barrel would work as a nice track for the pump and umm...yeah...


-sigh- as you speculate some more... You seem awfully sure that one could muster enough leverage with your design. But that's just an assertion until you can actually prove it (or at least have a rational explanation based on facts).


The side view's left right motion is the lateral motion...


Incorrect. The whole point of terms like "lateral", "medial", "longitudinal" etc. is that it DOES NOT depend on the angle from which one views and oject. If it did, then coining such terms would be absolutely pointless (i.e. one could always just refer to 'left' and 'right' etc.).


Back on topic: it would be cool to see a pump-action RFR from an aesthetic standpoint. Unfortunately it won't really change the ROF by much and it doesn't address the biggest problemwith the RFR - its shit range.



#126355 Rfr---shotgun?

Posted by ambushbug on 16 October 2007 - 12:00 AM in Modifications

I thought of the vertical motion of the lever and thought that a bolt attached would only swing down one inch, not enough to interfere with anything in the idea. I might buy a rfr and see if I can no shell mod...no I wouldn't I'd buy a good gun instead like two nitefinders instead...or a maverick and a spring...



I'm not sure what SHA means by "lateral motion" (lateral, at least in anatomical terms, typically refers to motion away from the middle line that runs lengthwise, front to back) though I think he's getting at the fact that, basically the 'nub' of the lever still moves in an arc, requiring one to engineer something a little fancier to pull off Lynx's idea (try it, you'll see). More importantly, however, a one-inch nub for a lever (as in Lynx's idea) doesn't provide much "leverage" at all (it's like sawing off one end of a teeter-totter) - leverage is proportional to the distance between the point of force and the fulcrum). I suspect that it would be too short to work. I think the direction connection to the bolt is more feasible but, hey, its always better to actually try than to speculate (that goes for all of us; MOD FIRST, POST CONCEPTS SECOND!)



#64423 Winter Vs Nerf Guns

Posted by ambushbug on 26 September 2005 - 10:35 PM in General Nerf

Funny, I was just thinking about this same type of thing..... I don't know much about winter nerfing (or any outdoor nerfing at all for that matter) but after being informed by Blink182 about CFM, it seems almost like its the duty of us Canadian nerfers to "master" winter "warfare". C'mon, since when have Canadians (or Americans from the Northern states) let cold temperatures/snow stop them from having a good time. Sure there are some technical concerns but surely (and judging from some of the encouraging replies) nerf and winter are not mutually exclusive. You'd probably have to incorporate some extra rules (i.e. no snowballs, at least for the sake of the guns)

I say go for it, though from the sound of it you're already planning a war. Shit, just think of the possibilities: in addition to snow fortresses, you might be able to incorporate vehicles (e.g. toboggans, GT snow racers, tire tubes) into the war - depending on the terrain. Like the ultimate snowball fight. Hmmmm......you got me thinking this could be something REALLY good.



#129393 Pn's Nf Mod Evaulation Results

Posted by ambushbug on 11 November 2007 - 06:59 AM in Modifications

In reply to Precision Nerfer:

quoting Precision Nerfer:
"[/quote]
Um, I would say "schmoe" is a liar... really man, no one is that bad."

- you missed the point - this (as I said) is an example using fake data. There are many plausibile reasons 'Joe' and 'Schmoe' could get different results (e.g. if each uses a slightly different standard or if fired under different ambient temperature) without having to invoke lying. Get outside, measure stuff. You'll see its an empircal truism that virtually everything exhibits alot of variation- figuring out 'why' is the trick.
But providing that both nerfers stick to their own standard while firing both the stock and the modded NF, useful (objective comparisons can be made).


quoting Precision Nerfer:
"Um, why should we mod then? Think about it. If we aren't doing it right now, then why even do a modification? "

- well, believe it or not, some people actually mod because they think it is fun and, as adjudged by them, it improves the quality of their nerfing experience. And they don't care about ranges in terms of somebody else's estimation.


quoting Precision Nerfer:
"It might get 30 feet less then what is said! "

- apparently.


quoting Precision Nerfer:
If we are not going to claim range, what's to tell a good mod from a great one?"

-this is exactly my point; you can't tell a good one if everyone measures things differently


quoting Precision Nerfer:
":Estimation from the mods done?"

- that would be a start. I don't know how other people measure things but I know what my NF or Max Shot perform like. A comparison to those mean more to me than distances. But like I said, not every one does the same mods but EVERYONE has fired their blasters stock (or have access to stock blasters).

quoting Precision Nerfer:
"We have to give at least a general range claim or else we just WON'T bother making a mod write up...."

- you might think so but I disagree. I've learned alot over the years on this site and it had nothing to do with ranges. Everyone who mods probably knows that writeups are always useful (ad that has nothing to do with posted ranges) and, similarly, many have learned that is is also best to trust your own instinct and know-how when it comes to deciding on what mods to do.

quoting Precision Nerfer:
"it would be meaningless without ranges."
- I think that is a pretty short-sighted view of modding/nerfing. I think posting the ranges as people have is the thing that is meaningless.

people on the NIC get into verbal wars about shit like ranges. If you don't believe it, fine - disscout the person who you think is lying or




In reply to Badger:

I'm not sure why you seem to take offense to my comments but you are, of course entitled to a rebuttal (and of course, I will doe the same).


quoting Badger:
"Hey Ambushbug, I think you took this topic the wrong way. I am not trying to "standardize" how one would test the ranges of a modified blaster, rather, I was simply giving my evaluation of his mod so as to dismiss all of the constant
flaming that was occuring every time PN talked about it."

- I suppose you're right - your main point was not standardization. So I guess I misunderstood. However, you seem to have also misunderstood my point. My point was not to 'attack' your approach to reviewing a blaster to evaluate PN's claims. As I said, it is valuable. I am really getting at the issue of "range testing" in standardized way and, while my comment may have been a bit tangental, it is just a general reaction to the issue of 'proving' ranges.


quoting Badger:
"Now I am going to pick apart your assessment of why my testing was not done in a way to be easily duplicated, whereas it is easy to replicate my results and my testing styles if one is careful and watchful of what they do.
[quote]various darts were used[/quote]
Two, not various, darts were used. PN supplied the darts that he made for the gun, which were CDTS (they are not considered stock anymore as they have an altered tip). The stefans were also used to get a view of distances when the gun fires the most commonly used type of ammo for a modified gun."

- as I said in the original post, it is understandable that modded blasters/darts were used in the review of PN's NF, blaster and dart were designed for one another. But the method of evaluation doesn't allow someone (who doesn't have the same modded blaster stefans) to have any information independent of your review.


quoting Badger:
"[quote]performance depends on air temperature/pressure (as Badger alludes to)[/quote]
Where did I ever mention pressure? I also never mentioned air temperature, rather I was referring to ambient temperature. I have seen marked changes in performance in springers when they are subjected to long periods in both hot and cold climates. There was no eulding."

- I guess I misunderstood here too. I thought you were implicitly referring to factors (temperature/pressure etc.) that chemists and physicists (or engineers) have shown to influence all physical properties/measurement. Why would temperature & air pressure/density not be relevant to "ambient" condiitions? I though that was what you meant in the comment regarding Which is why you made the comment regarding playing "up in the mountains (well above 2000 feet) on a very hot and dry day" Surely alot of these factors probably have relatively small effects for processes at the velocities we are interested in but from the standpoint of making inferences, this is worth serious consideration.


quoting Badger:
"[quote]height/angle is not exactly controlled (e.g. "steadying with both hands" is hardly objective)[/quote]
I am 6'1" in height holding the gun at eye-level, so at a level of 5'7". As for the angle and your statement that the angle is not exactly controlled, once again, I am not developing a standard for testing, but the angle was controlled. Unlike over 90% of the nerfers, I do have a good understanding of how to stabilize a gun to prevent recoil. A real firearm has alot of recoil due to the bullet being propelled by a gunpowder charge so the recoil can't all be prevented, while a Nerf blaster that has been modified has such a small amount of recoil in comparison that it could be steadied with just a small amount of effort. I am trained to use both handguns, rifles, and automatics and I am an expert marksman with all three as per the standards of the USAF, so I think I know how to fire a Nerf blaster and steady it to eliminate the recoil as well as to keep it at a level trajectory."

- I'm sure you do know how to fire a real gun (I don't, nor do as you say "90% of nerfers"). So what? I'm a scientist by profession who gets paid to be objective (and teach university students to be objective). Still so what? One needs neither firearms training or a PhD to be able to say that a handheld setup is not very precise.
And of course a nerf blaster doesn't fire like a real gun does (who said it did?). But that has nothing to do with precision/repeatability.


quoting Badger:
"[quote]comparison to the modded max shot[/quote]
This comparison was done simply to verify that the measurements were correct and to show that the NF was not shooting 100 feet or better. It was not so much meant as a comparison. More of a guide. I used it as a simple test to see if it was possible for the gun to fire 100 feet or not. Once it didn't meet or surpass my MaxShot in the range tests, I proceeded with the individual measurements of the NF's performance. Just to let you know, my MaxShot simply has the AR sawed off, but the original front cone that the AR was attached to is still there. A piece of 21/32" brass was rammed onto the internal airflow stem that is found under the front cone. This acted as a coupler for my style of barrels. I then rammed (literally) the cone back into place, disabled the safety that is inside the gun, and screwed it back together. The spring is stock as is the rest of the gun. My barrels use the same PETG that PN used in his NF. Yes it is a different class of blaster as opposed to the NF, but it was only used as a ruler for what 100 feet looks like."

"I also didn't do a distance breakdown as the shots from both my MaxShot and his NF were in a consistent range with a simple +/- 3' range of error or miscalculation. No one can completely eliminate human error."

- of course human error cannot be eliminated (and here, the "error" is not necessarily of human origin, darts perform differently too), that's why there is a whole branch of stuy called statistics


quoting Badger:
"There is no need for a breakdown unless one shot flies much farther or shorter than the rest."

- not true, the variance (not just outliers or "one flying much farther than the rest") is important for making objective assessment of differences between two things (e.g. range of blasters). One can only tell whether one fires 'significantly' farther than another by knowing what's a big difference and a small difference (based on the standard deviation, i.e. determines what is a little and what is alot). That's what statistical tests do: they judge whether a difference is a little or alot based on an objective (i.e. data-based) criterion.


On another note, I never tried to measure distances at DCNO as it was an outdoors event, it had just recently stopped raining prior to the start of the war, and it was quite windy. Any ranges measured there would have been subjective, but when you are surrounded by at least 6 other experienced nerfers who, like yourself, have seen what a gun that can shoot 100 feet should look like, and the gun you just fired doesn't perform as such, it isn't subjective anymore as it is verified by multiple experienced modders and players.

- I know you didn't measure ranges at DCNO - nor should you have. You have better things to do, like NERF. Yes, its nice to have other people around to observe the results but it does not affect the subjectivity (unless they all indepedently tested/measured ranges). I never said you were a liar (which the only thing bystanders can guard against), I just said the range testing was not objective (e.g we all do it slightly differently and, thus, are expected to get slightly different results).


In closing, you picked apart my style of evaluating the NF without having any knowledge of what my personal background was, my experiences, or my knowledge base.

- I'm not judging your experiences or your background or your opinions. I can accept these at face value. I'm just pointing out that there is alot of subjectivity involved that provides a bystander (e.g. one who hasn't actually fired PN's NF) little data that he/she could actually use to compare with blasters he/she HAS fired (which is what I thought on of the purposes of sharing this information was). As your signature says, "you're brutally honest". Great - so am I. Reviews and statistics are separate things. Like reading a car review oniine: half is the opinion of the person who got to test drive it and others are actual facts/numbers (e.g. 0 to 60 mph in ...)


I personally don't give a fuck about ranges either. If my MaxShot can hit a person that is running away from me into the woods and tag him in the back of the neck, it is good. If it is accurate enough to fire through a split tree and an opening in a bush that is only about 2" in diameter and hit someone, it is good. Some people are genuinely honest about their ranges. I take each person's word on a case-by-case basis.

-no argument there


- Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread - but feel free to argue with me further (via PM).



#129270 Pn's Nf Mod Evaulation Results

Posted by ambushbug on 09 November 2007 - 10:21 PM in Modifications

First off - for the most part, I'm not so concerned with the ranges people post because, the way people measure ranges is so subjective, absolute ranges reported mean pretty much jack-shit. Not to mention that some just outright lie.

In principle, I like the fact that Badger is trying to 'standardize' ways to measure ranges but, despite his best intentions, the measurement is not done in a way that is easy to duplicate anyway.

The following problems make comparisons difficult:
- various darts were used
- performance depends on air temperature/pressure (as Badger alludes to)
- height/angle is not exactly controlled (e.g. "steadying with both hands" is hardly objective)
- not to mention that better summary statistics are required to make a fair assessment - its not just the 'average distance" but also the 'variance' in ranges that determines performance
- comparison to the modded max shot makes some sense in terms of allowing Badger to get a feel but that doesn't provide much objective information (e.g. Badger's mod is not identical to another person's mod). In actuality (this will sound counterintuitive at first) one should use an unmodded blaster and stock darts as a reference. For example, if Badger compared PN's NF ranges to a stock NF firing stock darts (so long as the testing for both blasters was done at the same temperature/height/angle), then this would provide a more objective comparison because, I anyone could make a similar comparison between their own mod and a stock NF/darts.
That is, if I knew my mod shot 15% (on average) further than a stock NF with stock darts (at any given temperature) but Badger's mod shot 20% further than a stock NF, then I'd know Badger's mod gets better ranges than mine. This would be true regardless of whether or not we test fired at different temperature/pressure etc. (even if my ABSOLUTE ranges were higher)


I'll illustrate with a fake dataset:


Assume two nerfers (Joe and Schmoe) live in very diferent climates. Joe lives in a place where it is hot and humid. Schmoe lives in a place that is cool and dry. Both agree to test their modded NFs against a stock NF, firing stock darts at the same height/angle.

Joe's ranges:

modded NF:
67'
59'
55'
57'
60'

AVERAGE = 59.6'
STANDARD DEVIATION = 4.56'


stock NF:
45'
44'
40'
41'
43'

AVERAGE = 42.6'
STANDARD DEVIATION = 2.07'

_____


Schmoe's ranges:

modded NF:
81'
80'
65'
77'
88'

AVERAGE = 78.2'
STANDARD DEVIATION = 8.41'


stock NF:
77'
75'
67'
69'
70'

AVERAGE = 71.6'
STANDARD DEVIATION = 4.22'

------


so who's mod is better? I'd say that Joe's is better (despite having lower ABSOLUTE ranges - this is probably accounted for by the climate he lives/nerfs in). Joe's mod improved the range of a stock NF by 39.9% while Schmoe's mod improved the range of a stock NF by only 9.2%. Furthermore, the standard deviation of Joe's ranges (4.56') are about half of the ranges found by Schmoe (8.41'), suggesting that Joe's mod is also more consistent.

There are some simple statistical tests that could even be applied to such comparisons but I suspect that would be beyond the scope of the 'average' nerfer - but my only point is that there ARE ways to perform standardized tests of mods (not that I think anyone would ever implement this). I am also aware of the conundrum - who the hell would mod something to fire stock darts!!!

Again, my point is that if people want ways to compare the efficacy of their mods, there ARE ways! But if you won't do it right, then DON'T bother claiming ranges because they are pretty much meaningless (the way that people currently do it anyway). Besides, everyone who nerfs knows that the guy pulling the trigger is more important than the 'range' of the blaster. And anyone who mods, knows that a good mod is based on alot of things and the effectiveness of the mod is based on whether it achieves the desired SUBJECTIVE goal.

This is not to say that Badger's assessment is not a valuable 'review'. In fact, I think his comments regarding its efficacy in a war (DCNO), while subjective, is very informative. But it clearly does not provide a means for OBJECTIVE assessment things like ranges.



There is way too much talk of ranges on the NIC - sorry I just couldn't resist pointing out how ridiculous it is to see thread after thread (or flame after flame) about this shit ........



EDIT: 100th post !?!