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#60177 While Making Something Else, I Made....

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 25 July 2005 - 04:40 PM in Modifications

Thanks guys, especially for the tip about the goop!

and blink, you wouldn't remember where you've seen it before, have you? I'd like to see it.

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#60411 While Making Something Else, I Made....

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 28 July 2005 - 03:36 AM in Modifications

You found out about a CPVC coupler fitting in PVC conjoiners didn't you?

???

Which part of this are you talking about, the finished rifle, or the unfinished, tiny at2k? If you're talking about the barrel of the airsoft dealie, then no, I didn't use couplers (nor did I use any of the whole gun). It's a series of smaller and smaller tubing/pipes. If you really want to know what they are, I can take some pics and make some measurements. I also used a long (probably around 3') strip of bicycle intertube to act as a spacer/seal. You twist it around the smaller pipe/tube like a candy cane as you twist it into the larger pipe. Seals perfectly everytime. I can post more details about that as well. Actually, if you want more details about the airsoft dealie, maybe you should stick to pms; I don't want to violate the CoC by talking too much about airsoft in a nerf forum.

I didn't use a bic pen or anything, because like Suave said, the pin is right up against the trigger. If I were to make this into a real nerf gun, I would deninitely put the airtank as far back as possible in order the make the gun as compact as possible.

Thanks for the complements guys!

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#60769 While Making Something Else, I Made....

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 01 August 2005 - 06:57 AM in Modifications

2. Take shell of gun and cut on the yellow line where the vinly tubing goes to the pump.

To clarify:

The finished gun uses airsoft bb's. I've only tested it with .2s. It is more accurate than my springer Tanfoglio, which I also use .2s in. The barrel is approximately 20" long, which accounts for my better accuracy (the barrel is exactly 6mm; I would guess your 6.2 is the reason for your inaccuracy, since that is like an airsoft musket).

The point of this post was to demonstrate my idea of how to make the at2k smaller. So, any other questions regarding the airsoft gun should be pms or e-mails, since I don't want to offend the nerf gods. Not that I wouldn't love to talk about this gun, but I don't want to do it here.

LMA, there aren't any couplers used here, only cpvc, pex tube, vinyl tube, pvc, and a lot of sanding.

And one last thing... the quote....

Osiris, isn't that exactly what I did? If not, please clarify for me. Oh, and YES! I KNOW THERE IS NOT HOP-UP ON THIS GUN. Its kind of hard to understand your sentences sometimes... and I don't mean for that to be offensive (or any of that).

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#60172 While Making Something Else, I Made....

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 25 July 2005 - 03:00 PM in Modifications

The At2k Luger (sort of... I feel a red jacket approaching!)

My goal was to make a high-performance airsoft loser rifle, and I succeded. But obviously, this is a nerf forum. So, here's where this post brings its relevancy.

I used an at2k to power this thing, and tried to make it as small as possible by removing most of the Spaceman Spiff aspect of the gun. I love Spaceman Spiff, but hey, I'll make a death blaster later.

Posted Image

I basically sawed straight across the shell of the gun. Then, I took apart the liquid cylinder, drained the goo, and sawed off the cylinder. Then I filled the resulting hole with goop, let it dry, and put it back together. I'm pretty sure that the goop part is completely unnecessary, as the cylinder appears to be completle sealed off by the rubber diaphram (which is very important to put back!). I also cut off the circular fixture at the back of the gun that held the clear dark plasic cylinder. At the time of taking the pics, I was going to use it as some sort of site.

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After the sawing of the shell was complete, I had to affix the tank. This was done by hot glueing a small sliver of 3/4 PVC approximately an inch long directly to the pump shaft, then hot gluing the airtank in front of the PVC sliver. Then I put some e-tape around there for security (not shown in the pictures).
NOTE: Prior to this, I had unscrewed the part where the tube connects to the liquid cylinder, and screwed it back on, resulting in it being cock-eyed like in the picture.

If I was just trying to make a small nerf pistol, I would have then stuck a 7" piece of 1/2" cpvc on the valve to make a barrel, and put something between the barrel and the body to act as a space (perhaps a ramrod hoilder, then e-taped the bageedin'
geesus out of the gun, perhaps adding some sort of covering to the back to protect the air components. And then I would have had probably the most power per square inch ratio of any nerf gun.



Posted Image

But I didn't. I made an airsoft rifle, that shoots faster, farther, and more accurately than my Tanfoglio. Sure, not too impressive, but I did make it myself, and it doubles as a shotgun! Woo!

I just need a name. Suggestions? I do plan on adding a covering to the back later, but would greatly appreciate any suggestions on how to do that (I'm thinking balsa wood). Hope no one gets offended by the airsoft plug, but it really was my main goal, and I figured any contribution to covert-nerf-ops would be appreciated. And please don't berate me too roughly if this has been done before.

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#75457 To Those Who've Cpvc's Mavericks...

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 07 March 2006 - 01:27 AM in Modifications

I also agree.

Also, without creating a better seal between the plunger and the turret, any range gained with using cpvc will probably be missed. I've done the cpvc mod, and the turret is in such an unhappy balance that it's tough to see any improvement.

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#75535 To Those Who've Cpvc's Mavericks...

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 07 March 2006 - 11:19 PM in Modifications

Are those ranges an average or just single shots?

See what I mean though? It's hit or miss, brother.

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#59764 Titan Mod

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 20 July 2005 - 04:30 PM in Modifications

Sorry that this is such an old topic, but I had an idea.

I don't own a titan.

Has anyone tried taking a double-stroke, high output pump like those found in the bike departments of stores and using it to replace the titan stock pump? It seems like the main drawback to that monster is the slow rof due to pumping, and if that could be accelerated, then I think it would be beneficial.

Shitake, with the size of that thing, you might even be able to just stick a huge tire pump on there!

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#79781 The Yellow Jacket

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 12 April 2006 - 11:48 PM in Homemades

Vinyl tubing. You can get it in a variety of sizes...

Or, if you're trying to get to CPVC, then use some vinyl (they nest with a little bit of soapy water), and for the rest of the way, use a bicycle innertube.

How?

Well, you cut the innertube into long strips, about a half inch wide. Then you wrap the inner-pipe with the tube in a candy-cane pattern, and thread the pipe into the larger pipe. It forms nearly an airtight seal.

If you have any other questions, let me know!

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#81098 The Reaper

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 02 May 2006 - 08:43 AM in Homemades

I noticed you were waiting for a CO2 pump from your local bike shop...

I tried one of those (if it's the same idea..), and the volume just isn't there in a 12 gram CO2 to fill up a larger air tank.

But maybe it will, ya never know.

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#61833 The Better Nerf Grenade

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 13 August 2005 - 01:02 AM in Homemades

Haha! [above]

For the sake of doing this, haven't any of you used a film canister to make a rocket? All you do is put some vineager into the film canister, dump in a little bit of baking soda, put the cap on, and place the canister upside-down on the concrete. It goes at least 20 ft in the air. A long time ago, some friends and I had a blast with this.

So yes, there is enough explosive force from the reaction to make foam fly.

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#60770 Super Soaker Nerf

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 01 August 2005 - 07:00 AM in Modifications

Heres a crappy MS paint drawing of what it looks like on the inside...

I'm impressed by that. Is there a reason I shouldn't be?



#60144 Sspb Question

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 25 July 2005 - 03:23 AM in Modifications

Really? I thought the only thing in the chamber was a back check valve as well as the actual valve (which seems to resemble a quick-exhaust potato cannon valve). I think the over-pressure valve is located only in the pump shaft. Please correct me if I'm wrong!

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#60109 Sspb Question

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 24 July 2005 - 06:35 PM in Modifications

Um... I believe there are a lot of other post around here about that... if you would like to search.

Otherwise, just saw off the front of the pump tube, taking care not to saw through the actual pump shaft. Then pop some hot glue on the end of the pump shaft... And glue everything back up.

There are also barrel swap mods, and expansion mods as well, if you'd search.

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#80523 Sspb Mini Shooter

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 21 April 2006 - 02:55 AM in Modifications

Added to the directory!

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#74123 Sspb

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 24 February 2006 - 08:16 AM in Modifications

Just to add my two cents...

In my experience with the Derringers of Nerf, I've found them to be finicky bastards when it comes to sealing those pistons. Even the slightest bit of plastic dust/shaving/fleck will cause the piston to fail to seal; if this happens, it works best for me to take a paper clip, bend it a bit, and scrape the piston clear of obstruction.

The point of all this, is that when replacing the barrel, be sure to have the barrel pointing down to minimize gunk getting in the piston. Also, the pressure release can be plugged, but it's really not necessary: these things are powerful enough as it is. Also, as far as an air tank expansion goes: yeah, it works, but only to an extent. The valve is only so large, so it would be very easy to create an "air bottleneck" with a larger tank. Honestly, just put a CPVC barrel on there and call it a day.

I tried utilizing simply the valve by adding a larger pump and airtank, but the valve just isn't made to handle much higher pressures (my gun didn't blow, but it was nearly impossible to get it to seal, and when it did, the volumes just weren't there for effective nerfing).

I think the SSPB could be my favorite gun... Makes me feel like a male version of Derringer Meryl, minus the cloak.

Good luck pal, and rock that shitakke at all times.

Copy!

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Lefty's mod works wonders. The air tank is the cylindrical area between the barrel (piston) and the pump. Basically, the top "L" of the gun is the airtank (not counting the barrel). So, if you were to saw off the pump and the barrel, you'd have an airtank. Which would be worthless. Almost.



#68809 Sprinkler-valve Rifle

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 05 December 2005 - 12:05 AM in Homemades

Well, after reading this post I decided it was time to show my half-finished creation to the world.

I originally intended it to be a nerf rifle that would also have the power (if needed) to shoot "other" projectiles, and that would bear slight size reference to my Daisy 1848 Carbine BB gun. The end result is a gun that shoots nerf ridiculously well, but has slow ROF. Oh well. Did I mention it launches drumsticks?

Sorry the pictures don't show more, I had a family member take them (the gun is at my house, I am at my apartment 2 hours away) and I was lucky to get even these!

Anywho, the gun is basically a really small air cannon, using a blowgun as the trigger. The pump right now is just dangling off of where it connects to the tank, hence the term "unfinished". I just haven't found a good place for it yet.

The cannon takes about 10 pumps to get to 20psi or so, which is more than enough to nearly kill a mega stefan (or at least whatever the stefan hits). I haven't range tested it with exact measurments, but I can say this: it shoots from the edge of my backyard, across a neighbor's yard, and on average lands on the far edge of the NEXT neighbor's yard. All-in-all, about 100-120 ft, maybe more. I've found that the gun at 10 pumps is a little too powerful, and that sometimes the dart flounders in the air (which can also be attributed to poor quality stefans).

Anywho, the main point of making this gun was for accurate, and it serves that purpose. It's also easy to fire.

The pictures don't show it but I did have a breech consisting of a half-circle of PVC dremeled out of the barrel, covered with a sliding sealer thing. One of these days, I'll try one of those clip mods.

I'm also trying to get my brother to take a picture of it with him holding it, so you can see how well it fits in the hand. The blowgun looks awkward, but it's at the perfect place for your pointer finger to grab it.

And the pics: like I said, a family member took these... also, combine images 1-3 for an idea of the whole thing. It's rather compact, measuring about 2 1/2 feet or so...

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The butt/tank of the gun, notice the air input hose tapped into the PVC. Also, there is a pressure gauge that is tapped into the top of the tank that is non-visible from this picture. It is directly in-line with the barrel, and does not interfere at all with either holding or sighting.

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The trigger and valve, notice the red ball pump that is "hanging" near the top of the pic.

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The barrel, which is 1/2 SCH 40 PVC. This particular barrel is used to shoot drumsticks for a prototype drum accessory I'm developing. Notice also the large white tablet that has the label of "French Hovercraft Plans"... Someday I will build it, I swear!

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"Close-Up" of the trigger and valve. Notice the grey epoxy in the solinoid hole, and that I had to cut the blowgun down to allow it to fit. It originally had about and inch more on the output end. You can also see the ball pump more clearly here.

So, I believe this gun proves that you CAN use a sprinkler setup for a nerf gun. Also, the original intent was to make this thing prime with one or two pumps. I goofed by making the air chamber too large. I could fix this in a number of ways. If I would have made it smaller, it would prime in one or two pumps (while the output would have gone from high pressure high volume to high pressure low volume, which is what a nerf gun is). I suppose I could also find some super super high volume pump or something...

Anywho, enjoy, and if you have any questions, ask!

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#68888 Sprinkler-valve Rifle

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 08 December 2005 - 12:09 AM in Homemades

Thanks, Dave, you're the reason why I posted it!

Right now, I'm thinking your thoughts exactly: clunky. Maybe I can find some sort of a mix between one of those full-size pumps you stand on, and a bike pump. You know, kind of meet halfway. Either that, or make it so I can more easily remove the air tank and replace it with a smaller one. That way, I can have a nerf gun, and a... whatever gun.

Otherwise, there's always trying to decrease the capacity of the tank, but I haven't been able to think of anything that would stay stationary in there... any ideas?

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#68868 Sprinkler-valve Rifle

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 07 December 2005 - 05:41 PM in Homemades

Well, it looks like zero's site is down...

But I did find "Webby Darts" which look like they might have some potential for my gun. Obviously, I can't actually test this until winter break... since like I said, the gun is two hours away.

Thanks for the suggestion though!



#68813 Sprinkler-valve Rifle

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 05 December 2005 - 12:34 PM in Homemades

Wow, I just got here...

Langley, if I were to place a larger pump on it, I don't think I'd need to worry about breaking the gun, since the thing is solid. I could see that being a problem for a real nerf gun, though.



#68848 Sprinkler-valve Rifle

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 06 December 2005 - 05:27 PM in Homemades

When I was talking about breaking the gun and such, I wasn't talking about breaking the gun due to air pressure, but more that the force of pumping the thing to high pressure might cause undue stress, leading to the gun breaking. I should have been more clear with my original comment!

With a nerf gun, the plastic is usually pretty weak, where as with PVC you don't really need to worry about that.



#68862 Sprinkler-valve Rifle

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 07 December 2005 - 12:29 PM in Homemades

Honestly, I haven't tested it very thoroughly, but I can say this: as long as you pump it enough, and have a very high quality stefan... it'll pretty much go where ever you point it.

I know it's hard to tell from the photos, but when you hold it, it feels just like a rifle... which means you can look right down the barrel, without any elevation change or anything. So basically, the only limitations are the stefan and the pressure (since it does take around 5-10 pumps to prime). When I get home for Christmas, I'm thinking of revamping it and putting in a cpvc barrel to try and shoot micros... eventhough it probably benefits from the added weight of the megas. However, my micros tend to fit better in cpvc than my megas do in 1/2" pvc. So we'll see.

I don't think this thing needs a write-up, but if anybody wants one, I'd be more than happy to comply. Honestly though, it took me a few hours to put together, once I had everything figured out (as it usually is with air cannons as well!).



#77996 Split-tech 2k

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 29 March 2006 - 12:18 AM in Modifications

Question:

Do you consider this an AT2K integration (at2k into another gun)? I do, and when the second part is done, I'll post them both in the directory under Spitfire integrations. What do you think about that?

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#80522 Sharpshooter 1 Mod

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 21 April 2006 - 02:53 AM in Modifications

Nice mod, pal... and I'm sorry it took me so long to add it to the directory!

But first entries are always something special, eh?

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#69492 Self-propelled Arrows/missles?

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 18 December 2005 - 09:33 PM in Homemades

Shindig,

I understand what you're saying about the forum being clogged with ideas with little results. My only complaint, is that I think there may be some valid ideas in this, so I don't think they should be destroyed. Maybe there should just be a different section for talk like this. Something like an "Idle Speculation/Theoretical Nonsense" channel or something. Somewhere where people can just throw an idea out there, regardless of how non-nerf it is... I know there's the unrelated channel, but my experience with it has been that people talk about completely non-nerf things.

Oh well.

By the way, I should have been more clear. I wasn't really talking about you when I made the bottom line comment. I was more talking about how easily people get angry on forums (not just these), and my questions about why that happens.

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#69421 Self-propelled Arrows/missles?

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 18 December 2005 - 04:17 AM in Homemades

Hokay.

After reading where this topic turned after a few days, I wanted to say something. So here goes. What follows is my opinion.

Nerf is Nerf. Part of the reason that I believe this community to be so strong is the ingenuity and constant influx of ideas. I understand that this topic might not "Be Nerf", but it still allows people to flex their brain, and that flex might be the next great idea for nerf. So I don't think there is any reason to quelch this topic, provided that it doesn't become human torch-esque. But I suppose it is.

Yeah, the homemades section is for things that people have built, but it's also for discussing ideas, concepts, and general thoughts. This IS a forum, the main medium is the written word combined with input from the masses.

Bottom line: why do people get so angry? Are people's lives that devoid that these forums are the only control they can exert over others to fulfill their own desires? "I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony...."

What the freak. I don't mean to be confrontational, rather I just wanted to let those things out.



Oh, and Falcon, that balloon idea of mine was for the balloon to be inside of the missile, so there would not be any drag, other than the rocket itself. I was later told by a friend (since I've never seen a titan missile) that it probably wouldn't work since I was thinking of the launching system as a larger version of the old Bow and Arrow, and apparently the titan system is much different. Oh well.

Not everybody is in a place where they can build something, so speculation may be their only option. Like me. I'm in my apartment. I don't build things here. Oh darn.

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#69055 Self-propelled Arrows/missles?

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 11 December 2005 - 07:54 PM in Homemades

I would bet, that if you could hollow out the front of a titan missile (know that I've never seen one of these...), then you would have enough room for a small balloon. You could then blow up the balloon inside of the rocket, then use kite string and wrap it around the neck of the balloon. As long as it was wound tightly enough and with enough revolutions, it would seal it off... as long as there wasn't too much jostling.

Then you could just tie the other end of the string to the launcher, and maybe when you shot the missile, the string would unravel.

But... it seems to me, that at this point, if you want a rocket to go farther than it does... you should just build an air cannon and make a special projectile that has a ton of foam padding. The projectiles from here:


Finned Darts
Flares

Those might give some inspiration. But NEVER shoot those at someone... but maybe some ideas can be gleaned.

If I were making a foam missile, I'd probably just use 1/2 CPVC as a stem, wrap FBR around it, then buy some foam from a craft store (or head to the UPS store for packing foam) and shape it into a "head" (this would need to be as wide as the fins). Then, make the fins out of some plastic material (like the binder on the web site above), wrap the leading edges of the fins in bubble wrap or something, then fire that baby out of a 2" PVC barrel.

Boom. Missile.

But... isn't that not nerf? Is it necessary to shoot a huge projectile at someone from 200 yards away?

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#74343 Scout Pistol Mods?

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 26 February 2006 - 02:20 AM in Modifications

While I've never modded the Scout, I can't really offer any help, but maybe be a little more specific (pictures?) in your query?

Otherwise, check the mod directory, I know for a fact that ompa's scout mod is sitting there.

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#83208 Reinforcing Nf Internals

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 13 June 2006 - 03:04 PM in Modifications

My brother's NF did the same thing... I recently bought a brand new NF, but this time I epoxied the connection of the shaft to the plunger head. No problems yet...



#61102 Re: Spring Replacement

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 04 August 2005 - 01:05 PM in Modifications

Hey dude,

I found that my local Farm and Fleet sells the perfect spring! No cutting!

The measurements of the spring were:

7/8 x 4 x .080 in.

They came two to a pack, and are definitely stronger than even the original nitefinder. The packaging was a plastic bag, with the top of the bag being colored yellow where the measurements were listed. While these new springs are more powerful, I found that they were not so much larger as to cause structural damage or preventing the cocking mechanism from functioning. Rock it!

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#69664 Range

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 21 December 2005 - 01:43 PM in Modifications

I suppose that's my fault, finals have been taking up time...

sm3k will be added eventually. In the meantime, try searching? (and then tell me what you find, so I can add it to the directory!)


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#68650 Pump-action Clip Writeup

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 30 November 2005 - 11:47 PM in Homemades

Well that's definitely cool!

I was wondering, do you think this concept would be able to be scaled to smaller size? I've got a LnL at home that is dying for an SOCOM upgrade.

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#70739 Perfecting Ompas Titan Mod.

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 10 January 2006 - 05:51 PM in Modifications

It has been added! [to the directory]

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#68682 Organizational Idea

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 02 December 2005 - 01:07 AM in Modifications

I made a topic waiting to be pinned. It's at least started.

Also, Grinch e-mailed me back, and said that as long as I were to write the html and such, he'd put it up.

I'm going to first focus on the directory specific to NH, then go from there. It's going to be awhile!

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#68652 Organizational Idea

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 01 December 2005 - 02:05 AM in Modifications

What's wrong with that being hosted on NHQ?


Sometimes people get down on that site, I was just trying to avoid any reaction of that sort.

That's awesome that you're working on a full-fledged website, but that's exactly what I am trying to alleviate with this idea. There is so much content on this site already, why not just organize it? Or is that what you plan on doing? Because if you are, how do you rectify the bajillion nf mods out there? My idea is just to list them, and let the modder decide, rather than passing judgment myself.

Sorry if this sounds confrontational, because I'm not trying to be; I'm just wondering!



#68664 Organizational Idea

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 01 December 2005 - 05:46 PM in Modifications

That sounds like a plan. I sent an e-mail to Grinchy to see what his thoughts on it were. I'll let everybody know from there.



#68466 Organizational Idea

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 27 November 2005 - 02:57 PM in Modifications

Awesome, thanks for the support!



#68656 Organizational Idea

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 01 December 2005 - 04:55 PM in Modifications

So you're saying, rather than make a pin or sticky, we just use the current Nerf World page and update that? Or are you saying make a pin and use his info?

I suppose that either way, I should contact Grinch and see what he thinks.

Did I understand your idea correctly?



#68463 Organizational Idea

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 27 November 2005 - 02:54 PM in Modifications

I thought of it more as averageJoe posts a new mod... then, whoever's in charge of the pinned mod thread (whether that be the mods or a specific user, like me) would just put a link in the pinned thread to the new post of the mod.

And for categories, I assumed they would just be names of the guns... for example:

-----Nitefinder/Nitefinder EX3-----
1) Link to some brass barreled nf
2) Link to some uranium-powered nf...
3) Another link

-----Crossbow-----
1) Link to some awesome crossbow
2) Link to some crossbow that looks like a real gun...
3) Another link

And so on. The only problem I can see is with integrations. Either a separate category, or just put it in whatever gun's category the main gun goes in (so, an nf with one of those derringer things integrated into it would go in the nf category).



#68648 Organizational Idea

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 30 November 2005 - 11:06 PM in Modifications

I realize this is a double post...

So, do people like this idea? Right now it seems kind of luke-warm... If somebody wants me to, I will, if they don't (for any reason OTHER than that they don't want to be like HQ), I won't.

Just let me know folks!



#68494 Organizational Idea

Posted by KirbySaysHi on 27 November 2005 - 08:12 PM in Modifications

P.S. nerfworld.com is an entire site dedicated to what your talking about.


I just looked up nerfworld.com, and it appears to be down right now... But I understand what you're saying. The difference here is that these mods will all be just ordinary posts/write-ups, not a full web page dedicated to mods.

Thats a neat idea.
But, if your just going to basically make a mods directory...
Its been done before.


I agree... When I originally posted this, I hadn't seen HQ for a while. But like Dux said, we need one for here.

The only negative I can see about compiling a mods list is that really n00bish people won't look at it unless something is done to make the list really obvious.  A reference in the COC perhaps, or maybe a link on the forum sub menu. 


Definitely. But I pose this to you as well... The second post in a topic started by a newer member is usually about reading the CoC... Perhaps that can just be accompanied with a note/link to the directory.

Oh yeah! I realized this idea might displace/replace this pin: Pinned. Oh well?