I think I didn't explain that very well. The "slow air release" im talking about isn't it's venting through the blast button, but the actual rate at which the air fires from the tank. The hole that goes from tank to barrel is relatively small, so air release is relatively slow. This isn't a problem on it normally, but when expanding the tank, it becomes a relatively inefficien, unless using a long barrel. Multipul barrels magnifies the problem too, becaus the seal As soon as any dart leaves the barrel.
My point is, adding a tank with a faster air release (not faster cycling) would give much better ranges, even if you had the same air volume

But don't get me wrong, I think this thing is pretty sweet, especially for something built from spare parts and leftovers. I'm just thinking of how I would make it better, which is what nerf modders do best

Great job. Reminds me of a mauler from halo. I would think the low ranges are a result of the slow air release rate of the hornet tank, not a result of a bad seal or low air volume. Since you have 3 barrels, in order for it to fire 3x as fast, or a large volume of air is just wasted. I bet an expanded salvo tank would make this thing a great Indoor secondary

I hate to be a downer, but I'm pretty sure the local hardware stores do not carry any advanced pneumatic valves.
There is a guy on eBay selling salvos NIB BIN and he gives huge discounts for buying multipul. he has tons of them. (posting the link is against NH rules) you could also put up a wtb for the BS tanks.
Alot of people seem to be struggleing to get their hands on this valve. If enough people need it, I may buy a bunch and sell them here on the haven.
You could also use the pump and bladder from your RF20 on this project

I had hoped I could use my first post here to make a slightly larger contribution but I'm afraid I simply don't have any breakthrough material at the moment.

Anyway, I absolutely love this project Dyxlesic. I am very much looking forward to the second part of the writeup but as school is approaching I had a few questions so that I may tinker with this a bit before my studies consume what little free time I have.

1. First off, you used a Magstrike valve to fire the ARSCB. Would an RF20 valve be similar enough to substitute? I wouldn't mind getting a Magstrike but I'd rather sacrifice my RF20 since it can't fire all 20 rounds on a full bladder and ranges are lower than just about every other blaster I own.

2. Your design calls for the use of a 3-way valve and a pressure regulator to control the BS tank. I don't know of any specialty pneumatic supply shops in my area, would Home Depot, Lowes, or possibly ACE carry such components and, if so, in what department might they be found? I don't know how it is in your area but the customer service here is atrocious. Alternatively, are there any online suppliers you might recommend apart from mcmaster (I don't appreciate not knowing shipping before agreeing to purchase and I also don't care for minimum orders)?

3. On the subject of the pressure regulator, what would you say would be the best way to calibrate the air flow to avoid exploding any BS tanks while achieving best possible ranges?

Of course, it figures after months of wandering stores wondering why there are all these Fireflies now that I want one the only place still selling them is TRU (for 30 flippin' bucks! Looks like it's ebay time). I'd really like to try my hand at this one and if I can source the valve and regulator for a semi reasonable price I think it's very do-able.

@spencerak: You appear to be correct in that this system could easily be adapted for most auto rotating barrel blasters. However, there is the small matter of adapting said blaster for this system. I believe the reason Dyxlesic chose to build this into the Firefly is because of the unique internals layout that places nearly all of the stock components in the front half of the blaster which leaves plenty of space for the assorted air system components used for the upgrade in the otherwise unused rear portion of the shell. To fit this system into a DTB in a relatively clean manner, you would have to, at very least, greatly reduce the size of the air tank. I'm also unsure of where you'd place the pump if you don't use the Schrader valve idea and a staging area pump.

1: Magstrike triggers and rf20 triggers are almost if not exactly the same. I have done tests with rf20 triggers, and they work great

2: I don't think so. General hardware stores don't usually sell specific valves like this one. I don't think McMastercarr has this valve (but someone will probably prove me wrong). You can get the valve and regulator 2 ways
A. Go to clippard.com and order a MAVO-3 (valve) and a MAR-1NR (regulartor) and barbs with a 10/32 male thread. The shipping will be crazy tho
B. Go to clippard.com and find your closest distributor. Call them, order the parts and either pick them up or have them ship it to you.

3.the regulator is easy to use once you know what to do. The bottom port is in, the side port is out. Screw it in to increase pressure, unscrew it to reduce pressure. It is latterly that simple.

Yes, it will work with any revolving turreted gun. The barricade and even the auto t20 (have the thing that pushes the dart forward hit the valve instead so it's electropnumatic and full auto) would work if you rebarreled, and sealed it.

Part 2 is being delayed because a huuuuuuge leak sprung up, so I'm gonna have to re-hose it. I'm gonna take friendly advice and use the quick release connectors so it won't leak

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. If you fear talio-fobic or vacc-fobic, send me a pm and I'll get right back to ya =D

This is cool.

I'd use Magstrike or Rapidfire 20 bladder(s) rather than a PVC hardtank as the average pressure decreases in the hardtank, while in the bladders it will stay the same.

Overall, this combined with Flash's Salvofly (with something like PETG barrels) would be a pretty pimp primary.

This embodies the future of airguns.

I really need to get off my butt and make one. With a Triple Strike tank?.............

If I weren't destroying fireflies for other projects....

It has a regulator, so it's more consistent than any air bladder you will ever buy. It also gives me a much bigger air supply (2x-3x) than an air bladder.
I use stock darts, so it has to fire all darts, but drums can be made out of ANY barrel material. However, the current ranges are incredible

The barbs can be bought for like 10/$2 at homedepot or lowes.

I've had alot happen recently, and I'll finish the writeup soon.

Very nice! I especially like the ARSCB. It is very cleanly integrated into the system.

I may have to start experimenting with hard tanks with regulators again, you seem to be getting equivalent, or even better performance (in terms of capacity) than an equally sized bladder, and with the regulator it would be easy to adjust performance for either better shot capacity or ranges! (I think a slight improvement could be to allow access to the regulator without opening the shell, however I'm not sure if that is possible with your regulator, or if war hosts would feel safe with that feature).

I have a few questions though. First, do you plan to lengthen the barrels? Although that may interfere with the swappable turrets it would probably boost ranges (I have found that singled salvo tanks seem to operate best with around a footlong barrel depending on barrel material).

Also, what is the ROF like? In some cases I found that barbed connectors restricted airflow, and the salvo tanks wouldn't fill all the way if you tried to shoot too fast. This may not be a problem for you due to your barrel length, and would be easy to solve simply by using larger diameter tubing.

Finally, I've never actually been able to get my hands on off the shelf three way valves. How quickly does the one you are using vent?

Anyways great job! Very well executed.

1: i want it to fire all types of darts. making the barrels longer would remove that feature, and make it less compact
2: The tank fills faster than i can pull the trigger. the high pressure from the tank and short hose make up for the barbed adaptors. they do slow it down just a little tho, but not so much that it makes a noticable difference.
3: they vent slower than blast buttons, and have to let more air out, but still work amazingly well. I love it so much, and it only cost me like $7

1. "a few BS tanks" If I destroyed a few anything, I'd've stopped way befor you did.
2. Sure took you a while. I know that I hate long projects.
3. What are the ranges like, with both guns?
4. If you made a HUGE diameter homemade pump and replaced the old one, I think pumping wouldn't be some much of a challenge. I'd use 1 1/2" to 2" pvc, then use Venom's plunger head design. I integrated that onto a SNAP, and it had an almost perfect seal with a little teflon tape on it. The entire gun was retired because the trigger didn't work.

1: thats a long story, but i really wanted this project done, so it was worth the sacrifice and R&D
2: im a busy person. 16 years old, and i have to keep up with all the normal stuff juniors in highschool deal with, in addition to running a small company by myself
3: havent done range tests yet. the ARSCB is typical magstrike ranges, and the firefly is getting better than longshot ranges. id guess 80ft with taggers. but i havent tested yet
4: tried. wouldent fit in the shell and looked uuuuugly. magie pump was the biggest i could fit

Have fun bringing such a large diameter pump up to pressure- remember pressure is measured in pounds per square inch- to work a greater diamerter pump up to the same PSI you need to pump MUCH harder. That said, a Schraeder valve on the hard tank and an upright bike pump in the staging area may be worth exploring.

thanks for pointing that out. the schraeder valve is something i may look into, and tap itnto the outside of the tank out of the shell

Nice job, I would love to see this in a real life scenario. I was wondering though what are you using to fire the big salvo tank?

CLIPPARD MAVO-3 3 way valve. it makes it semi automatic

So I must ask...did you use your sister's hamster to make those cuts?

On a more serious note, why did you ditch the original seal between the firefly's plungertube and the drum, I personaly think it makes a perfect seal...........

No, it was her pet rabbit. it has rabies

but seriously, i dont have access to many tools. i was limited to a drillpress, plyers, a screwdriver, a hacksaw, hotglue, and epoxy on this one. on this one. That was EVERY tool and glue i used. i had to be resourceful. i didnt even have a tap

this was the seal that was on my firefly. my other firefly has a rubber seal, and i might just take it...

cosmetics are going to be in part 2. They look sick, but im not finished, so it will be a while. i will hopefully finish the write-up later tonight.

That's intense. Could you could hypothetically spend about a minute before the round pumping and not have to pump again the whole round if you're conservative with your shots (and there aren't any leaks)?

Also, since you were focused on keeping the system light- how much does it actually weigh?

Yep. You could. And with the swappable drumb, you wouldn't have to reload much either. After those shots, you can still fire, but it won't give you better than super longshot ranges like it does full power. It weighs about as much as a STOCK LONGSHOT without a mag, and the weight is completely balanced, and it's really comfortable. It has one tiny leak in one of those hose connections, but it has been located and the epoxy is drying as we speak.

Depends. I haven't fully filled the tank yet as it is huge. But here's a little trend I've gone with. If you pump it 50 times, and fire 8 shots, you will be left with about 35 pumps left in the tank. The tank is over the pressure regulator at about 25 pumps. I would guess the tank would be full at 65-75 pumps. At ~3 pumps per shot, I'm estimating 16 before the shots start decreasing in pressure. But that's just a rough guess

RESERVED FOR MORE INFO

THANKS TO THESE USERS WHO MADE THIS MOD POSIBLE
CHEESYPIZZA001
DOOM
BOOT
KIDFLASH

Most of my posts on nerfhaven have been total crap and questions. Today, i will actually benefit something to the community. I will add to the writeup as time goes on, and i remember what else i should add. in the mean time, enjoy
SOOOOOO this is my first REAL writeup...

Cheesy thought of it, kidflash built it, but i perfected it.
I have always used my NF as my primary, as it was the only gun i really liked. I wanted a primary, but i couldent really find one that fit my needs, wants, and likes. So i decided to come up with a list of things i would not go without on my primary
1.Decent Ranges: it doesnt matter how fast you can fire or reload, if you cant hit anyone at a decent range, you dont stand a chance.
2. All darts: We dont use stefans, because we have people sensative to pain, and little kids in our wars. we have tons of darts in all different types. i am not limiting myself to just one type of dart, because that leaves me at a huge disadvantage
3. compact/light: Im a runner, i rush, im on recon. whatever you wanna call it, i do most the running on my team. I cant cary around a vulcan or longshot with a raider drumb, as it counters my style of play
4. ROF/Reload time: i needed something where i can fire at a decent rate, but also need to be able to reload quickly
5: Comfort: Im wanted a comfortable shell, like the firefly, longshot, or NF. Not like a AT3K, Deploy, or SM3K.
6: Low upcost: no CO2, no batteries, air compressors, or anything i would have pay to replace the power source. Just pure manpower

in addition, i thought of things i would like on a DREAM PRIMARY
7. Semi auto: perfect right?
8: Swappable clips: quick reload in a pinch
9: built in secondary: just in case things go bad
10: efficency: i want it to be where i have to spend more time priming than playing

I dropped the ball a few months ago with this plan

it was good, but i was a little ignorant of pnumatic air systems, and blew up a few salvo tanks. TOTALLY 100% MY FAULT
After some hard thinking and testing, i finally bought the parts i needed. I will list them here later. More testing and failure, until i finally got it to work. Here is the inside:

wow. looks alot like the drawing doesnt it
I will go more in depth on using a 3 way valve and a backpressure a little later if anyone is interested. Im gonna just cover most the stuff specific to this mod first




FIrst, you wanna make room for the air tank
THIS CUT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON BOTH HALFS OF THE SHELL
Before:

After:


then you wanna make room for the salvo tank by making a cut like this:
NOTE THIS CUT ONLY NEEDS TO BE CUT ON ONE SIDE
Before:

After:

you can cover that hole with plexiglass if you want

So your pumps gonna go in the bottom support bar. make way for it to come out. make this cut on both sides
Before:

After:


Your pump is gonna go here, so remove all the screws in its way like this


For the airtank i used 2" PVC pipe with 2 caps. I used the shell of a super soaker to make it look more streamlined. Glue it to the bottom half of the shell with hot glue


I did the removable turret mod. if you havent seen it before i cut this
before:

After:


and this

and shortened the rod on the front thinga-majiggy and placed it like this so it can flip up and down like this


unscrew everything from the turret and screw just this part back into the rotator thingy. keep everything clear unscrewed and throw away everything shiny (if you ditched the flash like i did)

dont screw the clear part into the white part. the clear part will serve as your clip and its held in by friction and stabolized by the front orange thingy

I made a modification to the pump to make it more compact. cut, and epoxy

drill and tap your desired barb into the bottom side of your airtank too

cut the seal off the front of your plunger tube. align and glue it to your salvo tank.

and glue your salvo tank to the inside of the shell like so

i glued it to my built-in ARSCB for support. it is not necessary, but i like it

here is a picture of the hose setup:

im gonna summarize it for you people scratching your heads. the tank has only one barb, that barb then splits off into 3 directions.
1:to the pump
2:to the magstrike valve->ARSCB
3:Regulator->semi auto valve->salvo tank

if you dont know what an ARSCB is, go look up my writeup on it. the regulator makes each salvo shot efficient and consistent. The ARSCB is triggered by the magstrike valve and fires 4 darts/8 stephans in full auto. The Gun is semi auto, compact, consistant, swappable drumbs, comfortable, incredible ranges, has a built in automatic secondary, holds alot of shots, and works with all darts. it accomplishes everything on my list.

I am getting really sick of typing this writeup right now. Im gonna post this for you guys to take in, see what you guys think, add alot more later tonight. feel free to ask whatever you want, and say whatever.

You assume there's a purpose beyond creating an awesomely ridiculous blaster

That, my friend, is the purpose of life


Anyway, if it were me, i would up the ROF (not power) on the swarmfire to near RF20 ROF. this would be an incredible secondary. So if someone eleminated you last round, you can shove 20 darts right back at them to teach them a lesson, or use quick trigger pulls to fire extremely short, rapid bursts, which are pretty friggin hard to dodge. Like say the primary would be for like mid-long range purposes, like an assault rifle, while the secondary would cover mid-short ranged distances, like a SMG. Making the two opposites allows each to cover the others weakness, so in a position where one would be completely useless, the other is at the position where it functions best.

However, from my experience, omnipotent blasters always have one huge weakness: BULK. they are heavy, slow you down and take up more space so corners, turns, running, and stuff like that is not nearly as good. Also, while it doesn't sound like it, remembering and keeping track of the ammo supply in each and reloading at the same rate of pickup can also be a pain, and slow you down and change your judgement. Like on a gun i had with an 8 round under-mounted shotgun, there were so many perfect places to use it, i was just afraid to miss and have to reload that i almost never used it, and it just weighed me down.

Dont get me wrong though, I absolutely love the idea and everything overkill and see some huge potential

I love this. Its complete overkill. However, doesn't putting a short range automatic electric blaster on another short range short ranged automatic electric blaster kinda defeat the purpose? I would complete beaf out the stampede in the spring department, and go with a low rate of fire, but put a really high rate of fire on the swarmfire, that way you can get long ranged powerful shots with the stampede, and close ranged rapid shots with the swarmfire, since it has a smaller plunger tube and cant jam (i would assume) as easily as the stampede at an extremely high ROF.

Your explenation of a OPRV is not correct; I believe you are trying to explain the dump valve. The OPRV is what stops the tank from building up to much pressure so your tank doesn't blow up.

I get what you mean. The best way i could explain how the valve worked was comparing it to an OPRV, as the engineers told me it was a Modified OPV. However, valve is completely unique

So a neighbor of mine made these marshmallow guns. They put them into mass production, and now they are a huge hit. Yes, im talking about the same red and blue marshmallow blasters you see everywhere. They are close family friends, and their kids go to the same school as my little brother. They donated a few guns to the schools auction, so i bid and won a "marshmallow blaster". So after firing a few big marshmallows, i said goodbye to the warranty and the capability to shoot big marshmallows, and modified it. Im sorry Ms. (censored for confidentiality) for turning your hard work into a monster.

THIS NERF GUN IS BANNED AT ALL MY NEIGHBORHOOD NERF WARS, NOT BECAUSE OF INJURY RISK, BUT BECAUSE IT IS CONSIDERED CHEAP AND OVERPOWERED. THE DART SPREAD IS PERFECT, IT TAKES 4-6 PUMPS TO PRIME, 4 DARTS TO RELOAD, ITS A PISTOL, AND NEAR FREAKIN IMPOSSIBLE TO DODGE.

So lets look at this sucker. First take that cool sliding breech and toss it. LIGHTLY press the black dots and slide it off.

THe pump only goes halfway down the shaft, and doesn't go all the way to the check valve, as the pumps rod is too short. It is important to replace it. Unscrew the back red thing where the pump is. Pull your pump out, and cut the plus shaped rod off of the pump head as close to the pump head as you can. Do the same to the handle. Take some 1/2"pvc, cut it to the same length as your pump, and glue it to the pump head. DO NOT GLUE THE HANDLE ON YET.



plug the pump



take the red disc with the + shaped hole, and throw it in your trash or scrap bucket. Slide the red threaded coupler and a piece of pipe that fits loosely around 1/2 pvc pipe. I found 3/4" works the best. This pipe is to stabilize the pump so it doesn't do this


it should look something like this


Now you can glue the handle onto the pipe you use as pump rod


and it should look like this


cut the end of the barrel off, about 1/2" away from the black dots. DO NOT CUT PAST THE BLACK DOTS.


Glue 4 pieces of CPVC of your desired length to the front of your blaster. make sure they are centered. Due to the high air release rates, there is almost no power lost when adding 4 barrels instead of 3, so i HIGHLY recommend using 4 barrels

seal it up with hotglue or something

Sleeve that ugly mess in a piece of pipe


And here is your finished product


Go out and own some face

Q&A:

Q: I wanna see internal pics! WAAAAAAAAAA!
A. The way this thing is laid out, taking internal pics is near impossible, and wouldn't show how it works. Its like trying to take internal pics of a hornet tank

Q: How does the release valve work?
A: Its a giant OPV. yes, an opv. it is opened by the air pushing on it.

Q: Are you on crack? do you even know what an overpressure valve is?
A. i refuse to answer that first question. Yes, i know what an OPV is. The opv is held shut by a vertical perpendicular pin. when the trigger is pulled, nothing is holding the valve closed, so all the air rushes out instantly

Q: My head just exploded, as i didnt understand that at all. please compare it to something
A: Your friend (air pressure) is pushing to try and open a locked door (the opv). He pushes and pushes, but the deadbolt holds it shut. you suddenly turn the key (the pin connnected to the trigger). nothing is holding the door closed, and your friend comes flying in the house, and falls on his face. That is exactly how it works

Q: how is it posible to fire 4 darts with such short barrels and few pumps?
A: the air release is almost instant. when pumped 10 times it sounds like a gunshot

Q: Im gonna single it, and put a really long cpvc barrel on it
A: dont do either, caus the seal between the release valve and the barrels has more holes than swiss cheese.

Q: if it has so many holes, why is it good?
A: the air release is INSTANT, and quick, so much that the air seal makes no difference. adding longer barrels actouly reduces range, as all the air is released the instant the trigger is pulled: even faster than backpressure tanks

Q: i have another question that isnt stated above
A: post it here

hope you like it

This is a really nice idea, I think using CPVC as the inner material would help with the sealing issues because it is a good bit thicker than brass, which would help for the reason Taer mentioned. With a bit of sanding on the outside, it fits nicely inside PVC. And it would probably be better to rotate the outer pipe rather than the inner one, because then you could continue the inner pipe forwards and make it the barrel.

And Dyxlesic, it would be appreciated if you took screenshots rather than pictures of your computer.

I think the cpvc's walls are too thick, and will shread the second dart in the clip in half as it loads the first one
I would love to post screenshots, but my computer has been having mental problems lately, and isn't working.

Shmmee, you are a genius. the revolving has given me a great way to change the layout of this.
When firing from an open bolt position, you get a slight lag between trigger pull and the actual firing. However, when using a closed bolt position, it reloads after each shot, so if you empty a mag, you would have to fire an empty shot for it to rechaimber. A similar problem exists with real guns, as once you fire your last bullet, you have to pull a priming bar back to rechaimber. Using shmmee's idea, i could have a priming bar that would hit a switch disabling all electronic function (so it wont try to readjust itself), and rotate the breech 180degrees, rechaimbering the next dart. While with any standard clip fed system, double priming will result in a jam unless an ejection system is used, this will not happen on the halfpipe breech. Does this make sense or would anyone like one of my super fabulous visuals?

Alight, sorry for the double posts. My computer is having mental problems, and I'm using my iPhone for everything, and doing an edit on that is a pain.
Here is a quick diagram of the wiring for the automatic setting

Wires are a bit disorganized in this pic. If anyone needs it I can make a more organized diagram of it. What it does is fire when the trigger is pulled, but always en in the open position

hehe, the Mirage 2.0 concept is just a rotational breech as described attached to the valve system in the Mirage-ss. I've only ever brought it up when discussing feeding systems for semi-auto blasters (certainly not everything ). I do mention it a lot though, it's a project I am perpetually excited about. sorry.

Another note on rotational breeches is that they pave the way towards a completely different kind of blaster. Rotational breeches make crank powered blasters much more viable, and make designs based around circular rather than linear motion possible.

Also, I'll try to get pictures up as soon as school ends. Exams are next week so I am a bit busy now.

Don't be sorry, I was just messin with ya. The mirage is pretty awesome, and I've been obsessed with designs and projects way too much in the past too. post whatever you want on it here as to help us all make the best toy possible

As for the rotational idea, I have done HUGE developments, none of them utilizing this system, as I have found a better system for a rotating mechanism.(not saying this can't be used, as it can be used great, I have just found what I believe to be a better way. I will post when I get the chance. If you like my 2nd grader type diagrams, you will love my 3d cad designs I have made. Please don't ask me about it in this thread, as I will post a full one for it shortly.

Yea, i feel your pain. I've been busy with exams and makeup work too. Almost done tho, so I will post the rest pretty soon. Can't wait to see your pics

Increasing the diameter of the 2 pieces of brass making the seal should increase the relative surface area avalible

If we glue the 17/32" barrel into a stub of 9/16" into which the dart can drop, and sheath that in 5/8", in theory we can have it seal, use the minimum sized slot and still seal...somewhat.

Are we looking to use Nstrike clips? if this thing can gravity-feed, why not use it as a hopper clip a la Quick16 (Drop darts in and move on)

I find Gravity fed tends to be somewhat unreliable. Besides, clips are way awesomer. Having a raider drum in something like this would be pretty beast

I did something similar a while back
Using 1/2" PVC as the outside, you actually have a LOT of free space. I cut the CPVC slot 1 cm larger than it should have been and it still seals as well as it should.
I had some really weird PVC/CPVC that actually nested inside each snugly, so it has a good airseal.

The more size difference between the two pieces the more room you have for error.

This is brilliant. Might make my RF20 work again.

But a greater size difference would leave space between them, removing the seal, if I am correct.
Thanks, for your rf20 I think you should do something like boot suggested, but over the full stroke of the rf20 piston instead of a trigger distance

Interesting, this is the exact same concept that the Mirage 2.0 is based off of. The main difference is instead of electric rotation a simple slanted channel cut allows a longitudinal pull of just over 1/2'' to rotate the breech 180 degrees. By doing this the entire chambering action can be accomplished in the trigger pull.

I have actual built working prototypes of this, but have not had access to brass (or at least un-dented brass, which is the reason the Mirage 2.0 still isn't done, and won't be for a while). Even then with mildly dented brass and crude cuts friction isn't enough of an issue to make the trigger pull prohibitively hard.

It's good to see others are also experimenting with this idea. Definitely worth it to post it up!

You say everything is based off of the the same concept as the mirage . Anyway, that's a really good idea. I'd love to see pics of your prototypes. The cut necessary to make The turning on the trigger pull or a back/forth motion seemed really hard to cut, as it would have to be curved and smooth, but really really precise.
Yea, as I said I would like to see others progress in this design. Everyone has thought of iv, just nobody has gotten it to work

This is an amazing idea. I'm going to have to make one and see what happens.

thanks. If you find out anything, post it up

Thicker walled tubes will give you more angular overlap to work with using the aforementioned geometries. That said, the inside tube would feed best if either the wall was thin or if there was a slope in the opposite direction to "slice" between the darts. Another constraint is the ID of the snap-on thingy on standard nerf clips. Putting the clips over a tube that is substantially larger than it can stretch out said thingies, causing ammo to spill out of the clip when it's not on a blaster.

I thought about that too. I was gonna mention it tonight, but was distracted by the cloud rotation, tennisball sized hail, tornado warnings and lightening (struck a pole in my yard) going on outside. The problem though isn't it stretching the clip caus the brass is so thin. I have accidentally tested this by leaving a clip on a 1/2" PVC pipe for like 4 months. The plastic on "said thingies" is pretty thick and sturdy. the problem is actouly getting it on, as the pipe is halfpiped

I have a breach that works just like that. It has a very difficult time sealing, making it only usable in guns that could take a hopper anyways. It was done with a dremel and brass though, I'm sure that if a machine was making one it would function quite well. Nice diagrams too.

Thanks. The seal seems to be the big problem. I originally wanted a door-like design that would reload itself from the force of the spring of the mag, but ditched it for this caus i couldent find any way to make it work. Anyone who has a breech like this, experience, or anything like that feel free to post it here. We wanna learn from others mistakes and successes. Don't feel bad about like hijacking as long it is on topic

On the drawings, I like to keep them simple and colorful, yet recognizable. It's pretty amazing in a ghetto way

Wow. I had dismissed this idea several times, but had somehow overlooked that overlap. Very good work.
We were having a discussion on whether or not there would be enough surface area to make a good seal, so I did the geometry.
The arc length over which the two tubes are touching (and therefore make a seal) is L.

L = 2*2*pi*(r_i + w)*arccosd(r_i/(r_i + w))/360

Where
r_i is the inner radius of the inner tube (1/2" for 17/32 brass)
w is the wall thickness of the inner tube (1/64 for 17/32 brass)

For 17/32 brass, this arc length is only about 1/4" total, but if you use something like 1/2" ID 5/8" OD plastic tubing, the arc length is about .53" That's a surprisingly good number.
(It doesn't matter that much, but if you need the surface area for the whole seal, it's just the arc length times the length of the half pipe.)

A normal mill or even a drill press with cross slide vise and mill end bits could be used to make these precise parts pretty easily.
Nice work guys.

Awesome. And to think I wasn't going to post this because i thought it would be considered a waste of space.
anyway, i will post a diagram of simple ways to manipulate this system. To summarize it up, there will be another switch like the one that triggers the release valve, only it will be 180 degrees off. This switch will be aligned in series with the trigger switch, so it will be full auto, but complete the cycle when the trigger is released so it always ends in the open position. pretty friggin awesome. i plan to have 4 models, each will add something better
m1: full auto
m2: semi auto (using "temporary" switch)
m3: semi auto/full auto selective
m4: burst (will probably need microchip programing)
m5: semi auto/burst/full auto
m6: semi auto (will fire from closed position to eliminate tiny lag between trigger pull and firing)
m7: semi auto/burst/full auto. (semi auto closed positon, burst and auto open position)

this system can be so small it could probably fit in a recon shell, with a backpack air tank. Im thinking i wanna make at least one of these suckers bullpup

Given that the inner tube is obviously thinner, perhaps cuts in the outer tube like this might work:



so that the width of the cut is the same ID as that of the inner brass tube. Since the dart has to fit inside the inner tube, it should also fit through the cut.

Of course, given how thin brass tubing is, I imagine it would also be a royal pain to do. Maybe slightly thicker materials would be a better choice, or simply make the outer barrel from two tubes bonded together.

I couldn't think of any better way to word that. i was gonna post explanation of this idea here later, but i had no idea how to explain it. Thinner walls for this is better, but i did consider soldering two brass pipes together for each layer, to increase its structural strength. But thank you so much for putting this into better words, and better diagrams.
Cuts would have to be extremely precise. another problem encountered is the actual loading of the mag. like how you can only load the clip on an angle breach when it is in the forward position. but this has no forward position

During one of the midwest mod parties we kicked around this exact idea. Here's the issue: darts won't feed into the brass unless it is at least 180 degrees open. When you rotate it around, you need some overlap, otherwise it won't seal. And because of that overlap, the breach opening can never be a true half-pipe: it will always have to be somewhat smaller than the dart itself.

That is a great point. so you are saying in order for it to feed, the degree of the cut/opening has to be greater than 180, but for it to seal it has to be less than 180 correct? From my tests it seems it can load into it when it is slightly less than 180, however i am not 100% sure.

Introduction:
Alright, so this Is something I have been working for a few weeks, but haven't mentioned. I was gonna keep it secret untill i finished, but hey, this could really help someone in the homemade contest. This is a simple working concept that I am in love with. I have looked and found nothing like it, but it may have done before. It will be a while before I finish it, but I thought I might share it with someone so they may have one of those OMG THAT'S IT! moments.

Diclaimer:
Wile this is a concept, I have done some work with it, and will upload more pictures shortly. Some of the the stuff I put in the diagrams are not homemade. I put them there because it makes it easier to understand. Yes, i realize there are some things, but more detailed diagrams will be posted as soon as I can. Yes, I realize this is a concept right now, but I will post more really soon, as I am having technical difficulties, so please don't ban me.

So let's begin. What is the hardest part of a homemade, especially clip fed ones. The damn feeding system. Anyone can make a semi auto valve system, but making a breech that will go forward, fire, then back up is just a pain in the ass. And rate of fire is limited also by the fact that the dart can only enter the breech for a fraction of the full cycle. So I've been looking into alternate breech methods, and I finally got one

A rolling breech. Imagine an angle breech, but instead of a back and forth motion, it spins. Two telescoping pieces of brass each with a breech cut in it. The inner one is Spun by a motor. When the brass lines up, the dart slides in, when they are opposite, it seals. Combine that with an electrically operated switch at the bottom that triggers a semi auto valve, and you have a auto clip fed rifle. More info comming really soon
Here are some of my pretty pictures/diagrams


Hope you like
Here is a simple mockup of the breech. All my stores are out of brass, so I made it using spare parts.
Closed

Half open

Closed

It is a blast button, the second trigger on the titan can operate the hornet when they are attached.

The second trigger pushes a 3rd blast button attached to the hornet. What he used was the valve from the bottom of the Titan, that is only open when the hornet is attached. I have one, but never realized it could double as a blast button. However, due to the layout, it appears the air release from that valve would be slightly slower than a blast button, which would mean the hornet tanks valve would be pulled slower, which would lead to a slower air release. However, this would make only a tiny difference on range with such a small airtank.

Pretty cool idea. I was going to do this with my raider or recon. I noticed that the "blast button" you are using isn't actouly a blast button, it's the wierd check valve from the bottom of the titan, where you connect the hornet. I never woulda thought of using it as a blast button. Very clever. However, I would assume air release from it is slower, which would mean the openening of the qev valve in the hornet would be slower, which would lead to a slower air release, thus, slightly lower ranges, but I may be wrong.

Dude, you have gone nuts with these writeups, in the good way. Keep up the good work
So how are the ranges on this thing, with the deadspace from the rscb and all. It looks nice, and very clean.

Split, your work always amazes me. I'm not sure, but I think you misinterpreted the project in a few ways. It will use one exhaust tank, (not 4 or 6 like in the pictures you showed me). The one tank will feed 4 separate short barrels, as I use a variety of only stock darts (not stefans). I am familiar with salvo tanks, as you sold me two. However, I did not get to do much testing with them, as ones seal broke after 3 shots, and the other one exploded, and came inches from putting NMR brother in the hospital, and put a dent in the floor. As I have mentioned, this isn't your fault, and I dont blame you at all. I did not realize 10 magstrike pumps would do that, as I overestimated the volume of a salvo tank.

Since it is only 1 tank, feeding 4 short barrels, do you think a salvo tank would have the air volume and release rate to fire the with usable power?

Well, you have sort of contradictory requirements here. You want low energy input (not a lot of pumping, easy to reprime, tank isn't too big - "NOT titan tank") but also want to use inefficient setups to yield good ranges (high energy output). Stock darts + multiple air flow paths + good ranges. There's really no reason for you to mention how much you overpumped salvo tanks yet again.

There isn't going to be a single tank that you can make semi-auto to feed that setup without having either a huge/high pressure external tank or an entire HPA setup. Just throw a four barrel setup on a high air output springer (or airgun, if you really want). Besides, if you're going for semi-auto, with that setup, you'd have to reload all of the barrels every time = not semi-auto. If you haven't picked a solution by now, this has devolved too far into a concept thread.

While it may seem contradictory, I have a similar setup on a marshmallow blaster of mine. I hotglued 4 crayola barrels on the front of a marshmallow blaster. While it has plenty of deadspace I can't remove between the tank and the barrels, with 4-6 pumps, the 4 stock darts will fly easily 50 feet with stock darts. I brought the salvo tanks up to show that while I may have used them, I did not do much testing, and to show I am not very familiar with airtank volumes and stuff like that.

The air part of it will be semi auto, meaning it shoots a burst of air every trigger pull, but the actoul loading will be manually switched shells between shots. as I said in the first post, I pump action or true semi auto shotgun is way out of my current capabilities, time, and budget. I will upload a hand drawn picture as soon as I can, and a diagram from my computer later on.

Please excuse my digraphic drawings and handwriting. The "?" is the tank I'm trying to decide what to use
And yes, I realize the air tank looks like a penis. Please find it in your perverted hearts to ignore it

For a 4b, about how many magstrike pumps would I need to use per shot for decent power? I've never used a 4b, so I have no idea on volume or air release speed of one.

Split, your work always amazes me. I'm not sure, but I think you misinterpreted the project in a few ways. It will use one exhaust tank, (not 4 or 6 like in the pictures you showed me). The one tank will feed 4 separate short barrels, as I use a variety of only stock darts (not stefans). I am familiar with salvo tanks, as you sold me two. However, I did not get to do much testing with them, as ones seal broke after 3 shots, and the other one exploded, and came inches from putting NMR brother in the hospital, and put a dent in the floor. As I have mentioned, this isn't your fault, and I dont blame you at all. I did not realize 10 magstrike pumps would do that, as I overestimated the volume of a salvo tank.

Since it is only 1 tank, feeding 4 short barrels, do you think a salvo tank would have the air volume and release rate to fire the with usable power?

Just make a hamp so this topic can be over.

Unsure if it will work for a 'kid brother.' Remember the target audience.

Keep in mind this little brother is 13, and is pretty good with nerf guns. I'm looking for an airtank about the size of a marshmallow blaster. (keep in mind the pump is inside the airtank on a marshmallow blaster, which reduces it's volume)
So I did some testing with my Titan tank. The air volume of the tank is so huge, it takes 15 pumps. I want to go with something smaller. How is the volume and air release speed of a bbbb compare to a Titan? I've never used a bbbb

I do not know what a rotorocket, a jobar, a hamp, or a cobra are. I checked the modifications directory, and search, and found people talking about them, but I could not find pictures or descriptions. One of them is some toilet cleaner, but idk how it works or anything. As iv said in previous topics, I know plenty about almost every nerf gun, but my hardware knowledge is extremely low

Alright, I looked the my on google.
Jobar: it seems too big, and would use too much air per shot than I would like
Cobra: even bigger than a jobar
Hamp: I don't understand how that could be used here
I was unable to find rotorocket internals or find out how it works

To get four barrels to go over 50' with a very good spread, use a titan tank. You may have to use a clever trigger though. Depending on his age, a direct trigger may be too much for him to pull back.

He's 13, and a Titan consumes way too much air for this type of project. The air release on a Titan it too slow (as well as Im aware), as I would require longer barrels, which I could not do for this specific design

I plan to make it feed from a bigger air tank, using a "true semi auto" air system, but amo will be reloaded manually. It will use a 3 way clippard button valve (exhaust port covered for a pulpin design).

I apoligize for posting yet another question thread, but I have done research and searched and can't find the answer.
What its gonna be used for:
I'm working on a primary for my brother. He LOVES shotguns. A pump action/semi auto 3-4 shot shotgun with decent range doesn't exist, and it would be extremely difficult to modify a gun to do that (as far as I'm aware). I resorted to a design similar to a couplered pistol, except it would use 1 1/4" PVC with 3-4 3" cpvc/crayola barrels inside. I will use a clippard valve and a _______ tank (backpressure/pin tank) to make it fire a blast of air on every trigger pull (however, the cpvc shell will need to be changed between shots)

Simple English question:
What would be the best air tank to fire a 3-4 round scatterblast with decent range? I would prefer backpressure (ie. salvo, hornet, etc.) But pin tanks (ie. at_k, Titan, etc.) will work too. It needs to be big enough to fire the darts with decent power, but not too big where its wasting air (like a Titan tank would)

Stats:
Loading:1 1/4" couplered
Per shot: 3-4
Barrels: 3" cpvc or crayola

Thanks

So if you call them instead of ordering online it's cheaper? That's pretty weird

I think you're confused. The problem is that Clippard has absurd shipping and handling charges. I didn't order from Clippard. I ordered from a distributor. The distributor did not have an online store. All orders not processed physically in the store were done over the phone. I got the same reduced price distributors have and I didn't have to pay Clippard's absurd charges.

Ah. That makes sense. I might just do that

I live rather far away from the Clippard distributor nearest to me. I called them on the phone and they shipped my order to me. There was no problem, and I greatly appreciated the reduced cost.

So if you call them instead of ordering online it's cheaper? That's pretty weird

It's funny, because I realized the title of this is semi auto firefly valves, not semi auto firefly airtanks. It's pretty funny how conversations change and evolve.
Well I have 2 problems at this current moment. The caps have a wider OD than the Pipe itself, so they stick out. I need it to be close to the same for structural reasons. The second one is a really cool idea of mine.
I call it the seal breaker. In-between the salvo tank and firefly, I have placed a 1" to 2" piece of the fireflies plungertube (the part with the seal). I was thinking of drilling a hole in that and have a hose leading to an adjustable valve. The valve will allow from none to as much air as I want to escape. This would allow me to reduce the seal, which in result, will adjust the power. But it has to be compact, and able to barely poke out of a hole I will drill in the shell. Any ideas?

@ boot
My friends call me the peace keeper. I wonder why...
You can't argue with the slug, or you will be proven horribly, horribly wrong. No exceptions
In other words: dat bladda ain't gon' pop. Thanks for quoting him for more reliable information.
The space between the pump and the tank/bladder is EXTREMELY short, so there is no room to put a T (I've tried) unless I shortened the pump. and integrating a bladder with my specific design would take much more work, and require much more time and skill than I have. With an airtank, I can drill holes and have hoses come out of anywhere I want. While I may need a lot of air for a precharge, I wind up with a huge air capacity. Since bladders have a constant pressure, I can't use an air gauge with them. A regulator will make it just as consistent, if not more consistent than a bladder. Since the tank is going to be part of the fireflies structure, an airtank is better there too. while I like bladders more than tanks for this type of project, in this senerio, it just isn't my best option. I'm pretty sure I going with the tank.
I cannot begin to say how thankful I am for your help.

Kidflash:
Thanks for giving me an idea of what my end results will be. When I asked how many pumps per shot, I'm trying to get a general idea of how air-efficient it is. Where did you get the semi auto valve anyway? At clippers it's $25 shipping and handling on a $7 valve for me

That is the valve I used.

Where did you get it? Did you find it somewhere else for a fair price?

Kidflash:
Thanks for giving me an idea of what my end results will be. When I asked how many pumps per shot, I'm trying to get a general idea of how air-efficient it is. Where did you get the semi auto valve anyway? At clippers it's $25 shipping and handling on a $7 valve for me

Boot and doom:
I appreciate all the information you guys have given me so far. I love the compare and contrasting you two are doing, as it is really helpful. However, neither one of you is trying to insult the other one. You are both trying to do the same thing: share your knowledge and opinions on a subject, to help correct incorrect information that confuses others, help save eachother time and effort of a potential failed experiment, and keep eachother and readers safe.
You are both misunderstanding eachothers tone. I'm pretty sure that neither of you intended to insult the other right? It was either a miswording or a misreading.