Jump to content

0reo's Content

There have been 36 items by 0reo (Search limited from 04-December 93)

By content type

See this member's

Sort by                Order  

#329172 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 29 April 2013 - 03:39 PM in Modifications

Trustfires and NiMhs do NOT provide enough current for any of these motors. Even the RM2s.
The RM2s should probably only be run on a 1s system.

But torukmakto did some FPS tests, these don't seem to be any better than stock anyway. Duke_W has seen the same reports I have.

If you do use Plasma Dashes with the right batteries, you will need a better switching system. I haven't gotten to using a relay system yet. Will soon, after some robotics projects are done.

1. The RM2 motor specs for 6v so you're giving patently false info about that.
2. I did measure fps using a ballistics chronograph and they definitely are stronger then the stock motors, volt for volt. Compare apples to apples.

#329076 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 27 April 2013 - 02:31 AM in Modifications

Huh. I just had one of these motors die on me too. I haven't pulled it yet to investigate. Mine saw daily use on 4xAAs (5-6v); exclusively short spin-ups of the flywheels; no extended run-time at all beyond launching a handful of darts rapid fire.

Pulling the motors apart to check out the brushes is relatively easy to do and it should be possible to swap on a new end-cap with new brushes from any similar motor. Keep in mind that these motors are dirt cheap so if you like them its probably easier to just replace them.

The Atomic Mods motors are in a whole different class in terms of the quality of construction & the brushes, as well as output. For those of you willing to spend they are the final word.

#327511 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 03 March 2013 - 12:52 AM in Modifications

Regarding the RC Heli motors
I highly suggest you Plasti-Dip the flywheels. Otherwise, this may happen
Posted Image

That blue stuff is some of the foam burning off onto the flywheels. There was also some blue powder around the area.
For those who are worried about off balancing the flywheels with the Plasti-Dip, my stryfe's flywheels become *more* stable with the plasti-dip on them. Both were humming in key together.

IF your flywheels were more balanced after plastidipping it was just dumb luck. Also, humming "in key together" just means that your motors are spinning atthe same speed or nearly. Most equivalent motors will have some variation unit to unit.

Having said that, I do concede that there may be some benefit to plastidipping. I also believe there is still a benefit to balancing the flywheels and especially so if the flywheels are modified in any way- plastidipping, innertubes, rubber bands, or anything else.

#327290 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 24 February 2013 - 08:39 PM in Modifications

Anyone have any of their own performance results to report on? You guys bought up over 60 of these things. Someone's gotta have something to say about it.

#326813 Stryfe Modification Overview

Posted by 0reo on 14 February 2013 - 01:06 AM in Modifications

There's a better, shorter motor. Cutting the shell is completely unnecessary. See here: http://nerfhaven.com...showtopic=23611


#326593 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 10 February 2013 - 05:21 AM in Modifications

I'm hearing different ranges with essentially the same motors in a similar setup. There shouldn't be a 40 foot difference in the two sets of results. Just saying.

Azrael, I believe you were referring to this post:

I installed a pair of motors in a Barricade last night and did a little testing.[]

[]4) Ranges with the same batch of darts and the same batteries started at 30-40 feet from the stock Barricade and increased to 35-50 feet. The new ranges seem less consistent, but that may be a matter of needing to spin up to a higher velocity in between.

The discrepency is at least partly due to the fact that the Barricade blaster Dracconis is using only takes three AAs, whereas the Stryfe I used takes four AAs. The extra battery / voltage would be significant.

#326556 Balance your flywheels!

Posted by 0reo on 09 February 2013 - 02:04 PM in Modifications

Thanks for the support Langley.

I made the OP with the intention of following up within a short period of time.

#326531 Balance your flywheels!

Posted by 0reo on 08 February 2013 - 06:39 PM in Modifications

I don't have time to do a full write-up right now but I wanted to post a link for you guys to browse ahead of time. I'd love it if one of you guys tried this before I got around to it and saved me the work of having to figure it out. This is a link to a thread over on RCGroups forum about how to balance electric ducted fans using a smart phone. It is directly applicable to the flywheel nerf blasters as well.


Now, a few years ago I bought a fairly expensive tool to balance my EDFs that uses a kind of strobe light and pressure sensors. I haven't gotten around to trying that out yet either.

What I can say for certain is that most of the volume increase you guys are experiencing when over-volting or upgrading motors is only indirectly a result of the higher rpm. It's directly a result of those flywheels being ever so slightly out of balance. It should sound smooth like a jet engine, not like a buzz-saw the way it does in Coop's latest videos. More then that though, I would expect a modest increase in performance both in terms of top dart speed and in post-shot flywheel rpm recovery time.

Please, someone do this and document it so I don't have to. Pretty please.

#326400 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 05 February 2013 - 09:12 PM in Modifications

Just saw this post.
70-80 feet using Tamiyas and a LiPo, like I said in the thread I have which you posted in before haha. Sorry for assuming it would still be fresh in your memory, that was my mistake.
I don't think the Stryfe can do 60 feet at stock. I didn't test mine with the stock setup for long, but that seems to be the average range of one overvolted to 12V, based on other tests I have seen conducted.
Are you actually measuring? Or just guessing? I thought mine was hitting 90, but upon measurement, it was more like 80 at peak distance, with high 60s and 70s on average.

Also, I brought up the current thing because based on the specs, like in the chart posted by Draconis, current draw is reaching a level that could potentially burn out the stock switches, even with your voltage setup. It's just a word of warning.

The 60ft mark was just off-hand and measured crudely. If you say it's less then that then I'll take your word for it. I very likely had some arc on the trajectory for those shots.

#326389 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 05 February 2013 - 06:49 PM in Modifications

I'm pretty sure Alkalines do not have the same current capacity as a NiMH battery. High stall currents might not be able to be done by standard AAs, thus, recovery time increases.

It's not that you were misleading, but more so that it wasn't clear. No need to take offense.

90 feet is just pretty high, I'm just looking forward to some proof. So far my Stryfe has got about 70' PTG, with a few hitting 80' maybe. If those motors are all that and a bag of chips, awesome.
I'm gonna try some Tamiya Mach Dashes in a few days. :)

NiMH is capable of a little more current then alkalines but the biggest difference is that NiMH will have a longer charge life at the high amperage draw then the alkalines will.

You got 70-80ft ptg using what? Stock motors on stock voltage? Trustfires? Something else? I only got 60ft on stock motors and AAs.

The problem with the Tamiya Dash series of motors is that they're 3v motors. Any 3v motor will require twice as much amperage to do the same work as a 6v motor. The Dash motors are built for that kind of amperage of course but as you already know you'll have to use something other then AAs or Trustfires to supply that current.

#326384 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 05 February 2013 - 06:06 PM in Modifications

Sorry bud but NiMH eneloops ≠ trustfire LiFePO4 no way, no how.

I don't like your insinuation that I've been misleading. For the record the generic brand NiMH AAs I have work just as well. Alkalines will give the same dart distance but they run out of juice faster. I haven't tried lithium AAs yet but I'm sure they work as well or better then the NiMH.

As for 90ft ptg, I got what I got and found a decent motor in the process. Polulu.com had over 60 in stock when I made the OP and last I checked they had 5 in stock. That's plenty of folks that will be able to report their results. I'm sure someone will post a vid.

#326362 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 05 February 2013 - 09:59 AM in Modifications

Wouldn't they burn through AAs within a few rounds nerfing? Have you measured how much power they draw while turning the stock flywheels?

I haven't measured, and I have no idea how long AAs would last during a nerf battle. I don't nerf battle at all. I'm too old for that stuff. For me this is nothing more then a fun novelty that I harass my wife and our cats with. For my purposes a set of 2000mah Eneloop AAs last a week. So they're not burning through batteries like fire through tissue paper or anything. How big of a deal is it to swap batteries between rounds?

I don't see what the big deal is with having to use a LiPo.
Trustfires just don't hav the current supply for many of the more powerful motors out there. It's a fact.

Using a LiPo requires special chargers, special battery storage, modifying the battery compartment, carefully monitoring battery usage, etc. It will be fine for some people and there's definitely a battery performance advantage to those who go that route. But AAs are simple, easy, common, cheap, familiar, etc. I suppose among this crowd trustfires are similar, especially if a person already has them on hand.

I really hope the trustfires work. If the trustfires can deliver the current for these motors and the extra speed doesn't push the darts past their aerodynamic stability I think 100ft+ ranges are possible.

#326322 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 04 February 2013 - 07:55 PM in Modifications

I can understand the curiosity about using trustfires with these motors but don't misunderstand. They give a lot more performance then the stock motors on AAs. You could say they were designed for this. If Nerf didn't have lawyers and insurance companies to satisfy they'd have used this motor themselves.

ETA: I picked up some foam caulking backer today. I suppose I'll start playing with making darts for a bit. I can totally picture a stryfe blaster and magazine cut vertically and put back together shorter such that both mag and blaster use stefans. That's too much project for me though. 5yrs ago I'd have had it done already. These days my 16mo son keeps me focused on more important things.

#326309 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 04 February 2013 - 02:36 PM in Modifications

Well these motors are rated for up to 9v so they'll definitely handle the increased voltage better then the stock motors. But these motors are designed to draw a lot more current then the stock motors so a better question is whether the batteries can deliver the amperage at the higher voltage. It might be the case that if you want to over-volt these motors properly you'll have to use the flat LiPo batteries.

#326249 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 01 February 2013 - 11:29 PM in Modifications

What kind of torque does it have? Any numbers?

I haven't been able to find any published data on the motor other then the chart you see at the link in the OP, which of course has no torque data other then a brief mention that its got twice as much torque as some other motor which also has no published data available. I bought this motor as a complete shot in the dark gamble because it was cheap. What I have been able to piece together is that at 6v its got a no-load rpm of 26000, and a current draw of 280ma. That tells me this motor is maybe around 20g-cm at max efficiency.

Keep in mind, a single torque number tells you very little. What you really want to see is a torque / rpm graph for a specific voltage like this:
Posted Image

#326243 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 01 February 2013 - 07:08 PM in Modifications

What is that supposed to mean?

It means there is no left / right motor. There is one motor. If you want it to spin the other direction you reverse the polarity. The way these motors sit in the plastic flywheel housing you just wire them up the same way the OE motors were wired, sans thermistors. Don't over-think it.

#326240 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 01 February 2013 - 07:03 PM in Modifications

Is the link for the left or right motor?

Same motor.

As for the plastidip, I'm still not a fan. I think the flywheels need to be balanced as it is and the plastidip will only make it worse. I'd consider plastidipping the darts but I think I need to look at doing something completely different with the darts anyway.

#326236 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 01 February 2013 - 05:48 PM in Modifications

Ok, so I had a few hours to screw around with this today. Got some interesting results with the ballistic chronograph. On NiMH AAs I clocked one dart at 130fps!! On the other hand, I connected up 2 A123 systems LiFePO4 batteries which can deliver 6-7v and plenty of amperage. I started getting really inconsistent muzzle velocity, but mostly less then with the lower voltage. Looks like I might have to concede that the flywheels may in fact be slipping on the darts.

My AtomicMods motors blaster started having other serious problems. Haven't had a chance to trouble shoot it yet.

#326230 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 01 February 2013 - 02:55 PM in Modifications

IMHO, these are the best motors for any flywheel nerf gun that runs on 4 AAs.

There are much faster stronger 130 motors but its the fact that these run so well on AAs that really make them exceptional. That and the fact that the darts really do seem to crap out beyond a certain muzzle velocity. (Too much fishtailing / aerodynamic instability makes them not travel as far even in spite of a higher MV) The darts work real well at the 100fps these motors fling them. I'm not sure how much faster they can go and remain stable but I think this is pretty close to the limit. Had tons of that problem with the AtomicMods motors.

#326226 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 01 February 2013 - 01:07 PM in Modifications

Very cool; this is what we love to see from new members.

Any chance we could get a video of your finalized Stryfe in action?

Yea, I've been meaning to do a vid but haven't gotten around to it. It's been a real busy week for me. I also took the Solarbotics motors (linked above) out to try some super-ultra-hot AtomicMods motors (which perform nice but ask too much of AA batteries) so I don't have a Stryfe with the Solarbotics motors installed right now. Either way, take my word for it. It's probably <$10 delivered to your door for a pair of these. You won't be disappointed.

Keep in mind... I ran the Solarbotics motors on Eneloop AAs. I didn't even try Trustfires. These Solarbotics motors are rated for up to 9v. If the Trustfires can deliver the current these motors ask at that voltage there might be even more performance on tap. Disposeable Lithium AAs might give an extra volt for a little more performance too. These motors do so well on good NiMH AAs that you have to question whether it's worth the price of the fancy batteries. I think it's probably not.

#326224 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 01 February 2013 - 12:40 PM in Modifications

These are 130 size motors so no modification is necessary. They drop right in.

They handle rapid fire very well. You can of course get a little bit more performance from other motors but the cost both in terms of dollars, time, and effort goes up dramatically. Not worth it IMHO. These motors give you 90%+ of the performance of the strongest motors made in this size at 1% of the cost.

#326220 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by 0reo on 01 February 2013 - 12:15 PM in Modifications

Just for my own entertainment I've probably spent $200 on trying different motors in the Stryfe. Some were so inadequate they weren't even worth installing for a trial. Some performed well but at four times the price of the Stryfe itself not including the cost of exotic LiPo batteries, relays, rewiring with heavy gage wire, modifying the battery compartment, etc. One unlikely pair of motors gave me 90ft PTG, 100fps+ muzzle velocity, operate wonderfully on both the original wiring and regular old rechargeable AA batteries, and cost a whopping $2.25ea. Given the performance per dollar and minute spent of these motors it's a fools errand to look any further. (Not that I judge anyone for going on fools errands. This entire project was one for me.)

Here's the link:


For the record I am not affiliated in any way with either the motor manufacturer or the linked vendor.

Install and be merry. Happy Nerfing folks!

EDIT TO ADD: By "original wiring" I was mainly speaking of the wire gage and the switches. I did remove the thermistors or whatever those things are called on the OE motors.

#326197 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 31 January 2013 - 06:46 PM in Modifications

I agree. It could be the current draw. However, part of the trade-off of designing an ultra-high rpm motor is that the torque curve suffers. So it might be both.

I think I'll be able to get my AtomicMods motors installed tomorrow. I may have the same problem with the batteries not being able to keep up. We'll see.

#326024 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 29 January 2013 - 09:02 AM in Modifications

I don't have that kinda time. They make all kinds of brushless motors for RC Aircraft. I'd just find one with the right specs and buy it off the shelf. Then again, I'm not taking on that project at all because I don't have the time.

#326016 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 28 January 2013 - 11:12 PM in Modifications

Another thought- wonder if there's room to swap out the trigger mechanics and replace with a solenoid that would push the dart into the flywheels. Then the gun could be made select-fire. Hell, you could even do a 3rd burst mode.

Use the edit feature to avoid talking to yourself sequentially.

#325986 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 28 January 2013 - 02:58 PM in Modifications

Just received the AtomicMods Stock R Evolution motors. WOWZA! You can't stall these motors by pinching the motor shaft with your fingers. I tried. Got burns on my finger tips! Unfortunately it doesn't look good for me getting these installed today. Too much important stuff to do. :(

On a side note, if I decide to not use them in the Stryfe they'll make great motors for a hand-held rotary tool. Think dremel but less bulky.

#325967 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 28 January 2013 - 10:53 AM in Modifications

Brushless motors come in all sizes and specs too. I've got a pair for a ducted fan RC airplane that will do 70krpm. But you can get them in an "out-runner" style and my thought was to let the motor body spin as the flywheel itself. This would allow for MUCH more torque, and fw mass, as well as high rpm. But of course the build would require massive reconstruction of the gun internals. Might be better of constructing from scratch. It'd be an expensive build too.

#325945 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 27 January 2013 - 11:45 PM in Modifications

Any advantage of a MOSFET over a relay?

On another note, anyone considered replacing the mechanical trigger mechanism with a solenoid and then using a circuit to effect select-fire capability?

#325923 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 27 January 2013 - 06:29 PM in Modifications

Good idea on the dynamat. I like that idea.

I was thinking the same thing about those switches the other day. What's a BJT? You could use a relay and there's probably one that will handle the current and fit in the gun easy enough. Looks like I'm gonna have to hit the local electronics geek-shop tomorrow for one. My AtomicMods motors are coming tomorrow and they too draw a lot of current. My hope is that the Eneloop AAs will deliver the current so I don't have to resort to exotic batteries. I've heard of Eneloops delivering 4A without too much voltage drop. Guess I'm gonna find out.

After that I guess I'm gonna have to see about redesigning these darts because I'll be satisfied that at 40krpm and 50g-cm of torque (both motors combined) I've come as far as is reasonable and a little beyond with modifying the gun. The darts still leave much to be desired.

#325812 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 25 January 2013 - 08:38 PM in Modifications

The inertial energy is negligible. The flywheels don't have enough mass to store that kind of energy. The dart can only exit at the same speed as the flywheels retain. That there is such a large drop in RPMs when a dart is passed means that the motors lack sufficient torque to maintain their speed, even with whatever inertial assistance they get.

Try this: on a blaster with locks removed spin up the flywheels and then cut power to the motors a split second before firing a dart with the trigger. If the inertial energy matters the dart will still fire. If the dart doesn't fire or only goes a few feet then the vast majority of energy imparted in the darts comes directly from motor torque. I bet you jam the gun.

I'm not saying a faster motor does no good. It does good. But once you're in the 20krpm range you stand to benefit a great deal more from additional torque then you do additional no-load motor speed.

#325801 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 25 January 2013 - 05:58 PM in Modifications

Ok, I have to confess to a mathematical error. In my formula to calculate RPMs and Dart Velocity I forgot to convert RPMs to rounds per second which means my calculated RPMs were off by a factor of 60. My general premise that torque is limiting, not RPMs still stands.

Redoing the math:

FPS = RPM x C / 60
FPS = Dart muzzle velocity
RPM = Flywheel rounds per minute
C = Circumference of flywheel
So 100fps x 60seconds/min x 12inches/ft / 4.131" = RPM = 17,429

Does that make better sense?

So, 17k RPMs is still a big drop from the ≈25krpm free-running speed of my motors.

The blue darts only weigh one gram give or take 10%, not fifty. But I don't think it's the propelling of the dart that takes so much torque as it is the squishing of the rubber dart tip between the flywheels. Have you ever tried to push a dart through by hand? It takes a bit of force. Have you ever held a 10g or 20g weight in your hand? Its not much and the motor torque spec is only at one cm from the motor shaft. The flywheels are actually 1.67cm radius so if your motor puts out 20g-cm of torque you're only seeing 12g at the flywheel surface. Double it for two motors but its still not much.

I think that squishing provides enough pressure and friction between the flywheel and the dart tip to keep slipping at a minimum. I could be wrong but that's my take: slipping isn't a problem and plastidipping the flywheels is unnecessary. Maybe even detrimental, to the extent that the plastidip coating thickness has to squish the dart tip that much more to pass the dart, and it probably unbalances the flywheels a little which makes more noise and is harder in the motor.

As for consistent shot-to-shot performance, these motors can get from 15krpm back to full speed faster then you can pull the trigger.

After a while allodile.

#325761 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 25 January 2013 - 12:07 AM in Modifications

I don't think its possible to get enough torque out of a 130 size motor to keep the flywheel speed up while firing a dart. The best we can do is reduce the problem. If you listen carefully you can hear it even on my "high-torque" robotics motors. The moment the dart head contacts the flywheels the RPMs take a massive dump and have to spin back up after. It happens fast, and definitely faster then with the OE motors but its still audible.

Also, do the math. The flywheels are approximately 4" in circumference. Multiply (RPMs X 4" X 60sec)/12" and you get your theoretical dart speed. My darts shoot≈90ft ptg and leave the gun going 100fps (measured with a balistics chronograph.) That calculates to 17,000rpm. My motors are 25,000rpm. You can't make real use of those high RPMs unless the motor has the torque to maintain that speed under load. That tells me the only thing these high RPMs are doing is storing inertial energy in the flywheels, which does help but not enough (hence the drop in RPMs.) I suppose there's an argument to be made for adding mass to the flywheels as long as the post-shot re-spin-up isn't too slow but more torque helps there too.

Someone please be my hero and convert their blaster to larger diameter brushless motors. It would require major reconstructive surgery on the blaster but the results would be in a whole 'nother universe.

After a while crocigator

(Edited to correct my mathematical blunder as I posted about below.)

#325721 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 24 January 2013 - 04:38 PM in Modifications

Its low risk, sure. But at 40,000-60,000+ RPM that some of these racing motors spin at its definitely possible for someone to have an anomalous weak flywheel disintegrate at speed. Low risk but high penalty. It only takes a pair of safety glases to protect your eyes if you're bench-testing.

The Tamiya Dash series of motors run $15-$20 shipped. There's a very good $5 alternative that I'm going to post about in a few days. I'm also going to test some $40ea AtomicMods motors just for giggles. I'm currently trying to decide whether torque or speed is more important for our application. If it is speed then the Plasma Dash motor is probably as good as its going to get, but I'm leaning towards torque being more important and these boutique slot-car motor manufacturers don't publish very good performance data so its a little tricky selecting the right motor.

After a while crocodile.

#325628 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by 0reo on 22 January 2013 - 09:42 PM in Modifications

Be careful your flywheels don't come apart at those high RPMs. Probably not too much to worry about while the blaster is assembled but when you have it apart on the work bench testing remember to wear eye protection just in case.

#325619 Stryfe Modification Overview

Posted by 0reo on 22 January 2013 - 04:54 PM in Modifications

My first order of motors came in the mail today. The good news is that I'm already duplicating Coop's performance with the 180s on a set of the shorter 130s. There's a little more good news but I'll keep that to myself for now. Think I'm gonna do a video of my results and show it all there.

I can say that I was totally wrong about the OE motor's performance specs. Its no slouch at all and there may only be one or two stronger motors available in that size unless you want to start talking about external battery packs. The bad news is that of all the test motors I ordered only one (pair) was worth installing for a trial. The rest didn't even come close.

I'm gonna order another bunch of motors taking into consideration what I've learned so far just to see if I can do even better.

On a side note, there's probably some small amount of performance to be gained from balancing the flywheels. One of my Stryfes sounds ok, the other sounds out of balance (noisy). I have the tool for the job but its not simple so that's a project for another day.

After a while crocodile.

#325444 Stryfe Modification Overview

Posted by 0reo on 18 January 2013 - 02:07 PM in Modifications

First, this is the best write-up for the Stryfe I've yet seen. Nice job, and I also commend your ambitious motor replacement. I'd like to provide some info on the motors that I haven't seen posted anywhere else yet.

I suspect what you gained is more torque at the expense of battery life. (No free lunch) The motors you used are too long because they are the "180" size and the originals are "130" size. There is a robust selection of 130 size motors available with a wide range of performance specs. I think its possible to get even better performance then your 180s without having to cut up the plastic frame.

I've ordered a handful of pairs of 130 motors with the intention of finding the best drop-in upgrade option. The OE motors spin pretty fast just on Eneloop AAs. I measured the dart velocity with a shooting chrony (about 60-75fps) which translates to ≈430rpm which means the wheels are slipping on the darts or the RPMs drop a lot as soon as a dart makes contact (not enough torque), or both. The best motor will improve both speed and torque. I'll report back in a couple weeks about which of the motors I bought produces the best muzzle velocity.

In the meantime here is a link to a nice comprehensive list that really spans the range. 3v-24v, 1000rpm to 20,000rpm. Only problem is that they require a $100 minimum order.

Having said all that, I do believe it possible when using higher voltage and more powerful motors to make these nerf guns unsafe to be shot with. My inner demons have me contemplating flechettes and sabots but that's the last I'll speak of such things here.

After a while crocodile.