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#326485 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 07 February 2013 - 01:00 PM in Modifications

I tried the Tamiya Hyper Dash motors mentioned in another thread and the motors mentioned in this thread are significantly better for our Nerf use. The Tamiya motors seemed to have a higher RPM which would give a better first shot, but the follow up shots were absolute shit compared to these or even the stock motors.

I posted a video where you can see that my shots are pretty consistent, don't know if you saw it in my thread.
Did you perhaps leave the thermistor in? That would make subsequent shots worse.

Any range measurements for these motors?

#326393 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 05 February 2013 - 07:45 PM in Modifications

Typically, LiPo batteries are more expensive than any other type, and require a more expensive and singularly useful charger than any other type. At least with NiMH batteries, you can use them in your television remote and wireless mouse. All he is saying is that he doesn't see the need for his purposes. For new people buying one type of battery to use in all of their blasters? Sure, LiPos make sense. If you already have Li-Ion batteries, like Trustfires, then use them. The information I found within the independent reviews of Trustfires on DX indicated that the over current protection would allow 4A draw through full discharge. That's probably fine.

You'll notice that I gave both.

I assume you mean voltages while measuring these currents. The stock Barricade measures 4.65v at the batteries with the switch off, drops to 4.0v and climbs back up to about 4.4v at full speed. The modded unit shows 4.75v with the switch off (I don't know about the discrepancy, that's weird), drops to 3.05v while accelerating, and comes back up to 4.25 while running full speed.

I suppose it is possible, but not in the milliseconds that it takes for my DMM to read. Also, is this the chart you are referring to?

Posted Image

Yes, that's one chart I saw. It shows 4.93A for 5V there, but on another site, it said it was 4.5V. Motor specs are pretty hard to find on the internet haha.
Stall current happens pretty quick, I think. I know you measured peak current draw, but I don't know if a multimeter can display it quickly enough without averaging out the samples.
I just work out the rough math for stall current based on current charts and increasing voltage (typical Tamiya specs are at 2.4V).

The voltmeter I put into my gun is pretty crude, but with a battery measured at 4.2V out of circuit, it shows a I think 3.6V when rapid firing, and just 3.9V when just running or after one or two shots. If I press the acceleration button with no clip, it reads 4.1V still.
Just to give you my experience with the LiPo.

Those sound like Ponies. Also, ridiculous requirements. Maybe that's a little much?

The Plasma Dashes don't sound any louder than an overvolted Rayven at 16V, I think. YMMV.
Also current requirements are pretty typical, for more powered up motors.

That said, I think the Plasma Dashes actually run too hot, temperature wise, for use in an plastic enclosure like this haha.
The Mach Dashes I got seem much more manageable, and are pretty close to the Hyper Dash 2s in terms of power requirements.

I am using standard alkaline AA batteries (Rayovac) rated at 1.5v, just do dispel whatever you are trying to cook up here.

How long do the motors take to spin up or recover on the Alkaline?
Not trying to "cook up" anything here. I want an awesome gun as much as you guys haha. I just want consistent results to decide for myself. I'm hearing different ranges with essentially the same motors in a similar setup. There shouldn't be a 40 foot difference in the two sets of results. Just saying.

NiMH is capable of a little more current then alkalines but the biggest difference is that NiMH will have a longer charge life at the high amperage draw then the alkalines will.

You got 70-80ft ptg using what? Stock motors on stock voltage? Trustfires? Something else? I only got 60ft on stock motors and AAs.

The problem with the Tamiya Dash series of motors is that they're 3v motors. Any 3v motor will require twice as much amperage to do the same work as a 6v motor. The Dash motors are built for that kind of amperage of course but as you already know you'll have to use something other then AAs or Trustfires to supply that current.

Just saw this post.
70-80 feet using Tamiyas and a LiPo, like I said in the thread I have which you posted in before haha. Sorry for assuming it would still be fresh in your memory, that was my mistake.
I don't think the Stryfe can do 60 feet at stock. I didn't test mine with the stock setup for long, but that seems to be the average range of one overvolted to 12V, based on other tests I have seen conducted.
Are you actually measuring? Or just guessing? I thought mine was hitting 90, but upon measurement, it was more like 80 at peak distance, with high 60s and 70s on average.

Also, I brought up the current thing because based on the specs, like in the chart posted by Draconis, current draw is reaching a level that could potentially burn out the stock switches, even with your voltage setup. It's just a word of warning.

#326385 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 05 February 2013 - 06:13 PM in Modifications

Sorry bud but NiMH eneloops ≠ trustfire LiFePO4 no way, no how.

I don't like your insinuation that I've been misleading. For the record the generic brand NiMH AAs I have work just as well. Alkalines will give the same dart distance but they run out of juice faster. I haven't tried lithium AAs yet but I'm sure they work as well or better then the NiMH.

As for 90ft ptg, I got what I got and found a decent motor in the process. Polulu.com had over 60 in stock when I made the OP and last I checked they had 5 in stock. That's plenty of folks that will be able to report their results. I'm sure someone will post a vid.

I'm pretty sure Alkalines do not have the same current capacity as a NiMH battery. High stall currents might not be able to be done by standard AAs, thus, recovery time increases.

It's not that you were misleading, but more so that it wasn't clear. No need to take offense.

90 feet is just pretty high, I'm just looking forward to some proof. So far my Stryfe has got about 70' PTG, with a few hitting 80' maybe. If those motors are all that and a bag of chips, awesome.
I'm gonna try some Tamiya Mach Dashes in a few days. :)

#326374 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 05 February 2013 - 04:09 PM in Modifications

I haven't measured, and I have no idea how long AAs would last during a nerf battle. I don't nerf battle at all. I'm too old for that stuff. For me this is nothing more then a fun novelty that I harass my wife and our cats with. For my purposes a set of 2000mah Eneloop AAs last a week. So they're not burning through batteries like fire through tissue paper or anything. How big of a deal is it to swap batteries between rounds?

Using a LiPo requires special chargers, special battery storage, modifying the battery compartment, carefully monitoring battery usage, etc. It will be fine for some people and there's definitely a battery performance advantage to those who go that route. But AAs are simple, easy, common, cheap, familiar, etc. I suppose among this crowd trustfires are similar, especially if a person already has them on hand.

I really hope the trustfires work. If the trustfires can deliver the current for these motors and the extra speed doesn't push the darts past their aerodynamic stability I think 100ft+ ranges are possible.

You're using Eneloop batteries, which come in the AA package. But the way you say AAs, you make it sound like you're using standard AAs - which you're not. Eneloops are pretty much like a Trustfire. Just NiMH instead of Lithium Ion. You're just not overvolting it since Eneloop is 1.2V, whereas a Trustfire that nerfers generally use are 3.7V.
In fact, Eneloops can discharge more current than a the common Trustfire, I'm pretty sure.

You make the argument for a special charger, but rechargable batteries like Eneloop and Trustfires need one too. Granted, the a LiPi station is more expensive. I had LiPos lying around, and I have access to a charger. I never tried Trustfires because I didn't want to buy a new setup.

Another very important thing to remember that you guys are not taking into account is stall current.
You guys seem to be measuring continuous current draw, but motors need a lot of current to accelerate quickly in the beginning. That's why I decided to use a LiPo.
The Plasma Dash motor, for example, should have a stall current draw of around 10A. That's something a Trustfire will never be able to supply. And that's just one motor.
The Hyper Dash 2s I used should have around 4A stall current.
I just looked it up, these Solarbotics have a stall current of almost 5A at 4.5V. I expect the recovery time of these is a bit higher than stock motors.

I would like to see a video of 90' PTG ranges, the specs I was reading don't seem that crazy.
Also, I'm pretty sure the stock switches are only rated for about 2A, maybe 4A. Be careful with that stall current...

Draconis, I would also check the voltage when you're getting these voltages. See how much it drops when pulling a lot of current.

#327510 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 03 March 2013 - 12:49 AM in Modifications

Bobololo, it still happens with plastidip, but I would say to a lesser degree.

#329095 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 27 April 2013 - 02:37 PM in Modifications

Tamya Plasma dash motors. SG nerf uses them to compare stock motors. I did a thread on them. Just search "Nerf gun motors, problems and solutions"
They are very good, I use them I'n my barricades. I run 9v on them and they work fine and have been for over 2 months now.

Lol, you're not providing them with the current they want. I guarantee you that if you run them with the proper battery, it will have very different performance. I have used them, they are RIDICULOUSLY fast.

Trustfires and NiMhs do NOT provide enough current for any of these motors. Even the RM2s.
The RM2s should probably only be run on a 1s system.

But torukmakto did some FPS tests, these don't seem to be any better than stock anyway. Duke_W has seen the same reports I have.

If you do use Plasma Dashes with the right batteries, you will need a better switching system. I haven't gotten to using a relay system yet. Will soon, after some robotics projects are done.

#332399 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 28 July 2013 - 12:52 PM in Modifications

Have you guys been reading about the failures? Just wanna make sure you're aware that many people have had brush failures with these motors.

#332335 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 26 July 2013 - 03:43 AM in Modifications

Not that insane, the Tamiyas I use are like 23k+ RPM. Dunno exactly since they're slightly overvolted.

#329196 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 30 April 2013 - 10:37 AM in Modifications

Where did you get this? Looks very different to the numbers listed on Pololu and other sites...

#329182 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 29 April 2013 - 08:15 PM in Modifications

1. The RM2 motor specs for 6v so you're giving patently false info about that.
2. I did measure fps using a ballistics chronograph and they definitely are stronger then the stock motors, volt for volt. Compare apples to apples.

Lying about what? I've seen the table for 1-9 volts, and even at 3-4V, stall current already exceeds the current supply limitations of a Trustfire/NiMh. You can definitely run them higher, but apparently the brushes are complete shit, so I don't think it's smart to run them that much higher.

What numbers? I've never seen any real numbers from you.
torukmakto gave me numbers.
At the same voltages, it was maybe a 2-5 fps increase from stock. I trust him a lot more than you, he's a reputable nerfer on HvZ forums.

#326347 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 05 February 2013 - 01:08 AM in Modifications

I don't see what the big deal is with having to use a LiPo.
Trustfires just don't hav the current supply for many of the more powerful motors out there. It's a fact.

#327512 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 03 March 2013 - 12:53 AM in Modifications

Plastidip eventually wears off, though, and the dart buildup does still occur so any balancing is probably going to be temporary in a Stryfe or any flywheel blaster, really.

#326241 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 01 February 2013 - 07:04 PM in Modifications

What kind of torque does it have? Any numbers?

#326237 The BEST upgrade motor for the Stryfe (after extensive testing) is...

Posted by azrael on 01 February 2013 - 06:08 PM in Modifications

Neat. Might get a second Stryfe just to compare it.

#339756 Last Armageddon (Armageddon XV)

Posted by azrael on 24 June 2014 - 07:06 PM in Nerf Wars

Great time at the war despite breaking the pump on my Sceptor. Just an excuse to mod it more! Was nice to be able to put some faces to the names here.

Always love playing freeze tag, and for playing it for the first time, Carpe Testiculum was pretty fun. Can't believe Missile Crisis was ended in 2 minutes, haha.
Also, took this thing out for the first time!
Posted Image

I do think that it will work in that same location, if both teams were running missiles. One sided attack doesn't work there, I don't think haha.

#339897 Last Armageddon (Armageddon XV)

Posted by azrael on 01 July 2014 - 03:18 AM in Nerf Wars

Actually, Mysterio definitely played in the last few rounds. Was using a hastily assembled UMB, I think.

#333921 Last Armageddon (Armageddon XV)

Posted by azrael on 10 September 2013 - 05:46 PM in Nerf Wars

Haha, yeah they even had some of your old ones, Shmme. Just were in the community bin.

#339638 Last Armageddon (Armageddon XV)

Posted by azrael on 18 June 2014 - 04:43 AM in Nerf Wars

Holy poop, it's this weekend? This really snuck up on me. Hmmm.

#326127 Question to all you modders

Posted by azrael on 30 January 2013 - 12:19 PM in General Nerf

Close minded or I have 3 kids that lose the attachments to never be found again . Flywheels scare my kids and pets . We have to remember these are designed for children and not targeted towards the modding community unfortunatley. I help them upgrade the internals but the attachments serve no purpose for outr usage other then cosmetic . I use them in an office /warehouse close quarters set up .

I thought the stock Stryfe was very quiet. I have a dog, and any of my nerf guns scare him (not that I shoot him, he just doesn't like them). He particularly hates the Strongarm for some reason. But it serves him right for chewing up my darts hahah.

If I were to apply Dynamat to the innards to absorb vibrational noise, like I did with my modified one, I doubt the stock Stryfe would be noisy at all.

Personally, I like the N-strike clip system. I hope most of the new stuff will continue to use it. I just hope we will see a better design of the breech, I think it would not be difficult to redesign it to have a tighter air seal. I don't think it's too much to ask to have some metal innards, either. More specifically, stronger parts. This would allow the modding community to do more with stock parts, I think. I would love to see an automatic dart pusher like in the Stampede, but only if the gearing were metal.
I'd like to see more stocks, or at least ones that are slightly larger. It would be interesting to see them being sold separately.

Also, I hope to see more multi-shot guns like the Rough Cut, and more pump action stuff.

#326148 Question to all you modders

Posted by azrael on 30 January 2013 - 03:55 PM in General Nerf

Our stryfe and hailfire were both loud. Both look nice but i still like the air blasters and single shots. They've been shot plenty :)

Really? With no modifications, on normal batteries, my Stryfe was well below talking volume.
Using Dynamat or something cheaper would definitely make it quieter.

#340093 Anyone have an interest in Foam

Posted by azrael on 06 July 2014 - 02:48 PM in Darts and Barrels

Actually, redline polycarb that used to be sold by FMF has a SLIGHTLY bigger id.

I measured it to be about the same, just chalked up the difference to batch differences, since it's not incredibly well regulated.

I was just looking into buying some of the butyrate tubing. I hadn't heard of the aluminum though, thank you.

Anyway, I'll confirm thirty meters as of now and possibly 60-100 meters once more is set in place.

There's several kinds of aluminum on there, I can't remember offhand which one is the one I get. Not the super expensive one though lol.

Put me down for 30 meters (+10 meters bonus). Do you have a general idea of how much shipping will be? Have you had any experience with Inform3r's foam? If you have, is it anything like his? Thanks.

I have one dart that got mixed in with some of my stuff, that I believe was made from informer's stuff. I think it came from one of the Pasadena guys. It's pretty close.

Missed the bonus bit. I'll grab 45m, plus whatever the bonus for that is. :D

#340046 Anyone have an interest in Foam

Posted by azrael on 05 July 2014 - 04:15 PM in Darts and Barrels

I'm down for probably at least 20m of foam. I think a new color would be quite sweet.

Wonderful, thank you. The blue is very bright, I like it. Hopefully it has the same properties as the red.

I have experienced the same thing regarding CPVC. I just wanted to see a fit test for general reference (i.e. if there is a brand/batch of CPVC that it can properly fit in, it most likely won't be too difficult for me to come across). Also, it seems like most people are sourcing their PETG from McMaster now, which has a fairly specific I.D. (it would be nice if Drev could state where the PETG in the video came from though, that would be helpful).

I'll also have to slightly disagree with Ryan#### in my personal case (sacrilegious, I know). It'd be terribly inconvenient for me to have to re-barrel all of my blasters that are either turreted or have couplers for CPVC only (space restraints of certain shells and whatnot), but since hopper clips are so prevalent now I'm sure his logic still stands for the vast majority of people.
Sorry, this is starting to get off topic.

TL;DR: I cast my vote for the blue foam.

There are other 5/8" OD materials that have different inner diameters. I personally really like the butyrate tubing from McMaster. Slightly looser than CPVC. For airgun purposes, I like the aluminum tubing they have.

#331378 Armageddon XIV

Posted by azrael on 28 June 2013 - 04:39 PM in Nerf Wars

Ahh, if I could get a wye locally, I could get a BBBB good to go.
Otherwise, I'll be using a brassed Alpha Trooper and a Supermaxx 1500.

Oh well.
Anyone going to be selling anything there?

#331601 Armageddon XIV

Posted by azrael on 05 July 2013 - 11:49 PM in Nerf Wars

Okay, awesome. Having trouble finding safety goggles that vent well and don't fog.
I might be using snickers/makeitgo style stefans with my hoppered BBBB (unplugged). Couldn't get it to feed right with felt tipped slugs or AMIORS, maybe youse guys there can shed some light on that.

#331317 Armageddon XIV

Posted by azrael on 27 June 2013 - 05:13 AM in Nerf Wars

What kind of blasters are people bringing?

#331599 Armageddon XIV

Posted by azrael on 05 July 2013 - 11:42 PM in Nerf Wars

Out of curiosity, do glasses count for eye protection?

#331085 Armageddon XIV

Posted by azrael on 20 June 2013 - 03:05 PM in Nerf Wars

Bah, not looking forward to glue domes at all TBH hahah. Those things hurt.
Making some AMIORs in addition to the PAK D tipped darts I use.

#331046 Armageddon XIV

Posted by azrael on 19 June 2013 - 10:52 AM in Nerf Wars

The day is a-creeping. Looking forward to it, WARMUP should have been my first NIC, but I wasn't able to make it. Hope to see a bunch of people at this event!
Should be me +2.

#347589 Armageddon XVI

Posted by azrael on 01 July 2015 - 04:14 PM in Nerf Wars

Who's got the pics? I wanna see some! (wasn't there)

Here's one set of pics from bags:

#347534 Armageddon XVI

Posted by azrael on 29 June 2015 - 07:07 PM in Nerf Wars

Good times were had with my group!

Pros: Everything worked! So cool to see a lot of new faces and nerfers I've never met before.

Cons: Ever since my chrony broke, I've been a bit lax. Everything seemed to be shooting slower than I thought it was haha.

For next year, I'm going to actually build things in advance, instead of the week of the event, though haha.

#329598 EAT Giveaway

Posted by azrael on 10 May 2013 - 03:01 PM in General Nerf

I broke one of my EATs already.
I am a sad panda.

#327259 3D printed Wye with a Gentler Slope and a Dart Ramp

Posted by azrael on 24 February 2013 - 03:04 PM in Darts and Barrels

Isn't injection molding crazy expensive?

#326219 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by azrael on 01 February 2013 - 11:53 AM in Modifications

well, there is something you are doing differently.
my Stryfe is very consistent, recovery time didn't seem any different than stock.

I'll record something tomorrow.

#326233 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by azrael on 01 February 2013 - 04:31 PM in Modifications

I don't have the battery on me, and I only tested the stock setup for a few seconds before modding so I don't have a good frame of reference.

I definitely just don't describe my Stryfe as "bogged down" in the very least.

#326196 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by azrael on 31 January 2013 - 05:21 PM in Modifications

I just got finished installing the Hyper Dash motors into my Stryfe. I must say, I like the stock motors more. The RPM is significantly higher on a much lower voltage with the Hyper Dash motors, but they seem to lack torque to a point where it's annoying. Waiting in between shots for a second or two is just not worth the slightly higher range they were allowing. The motors seemed to nearly die every time a dart traveled through the fly wheels.

Although, temporarily running these motors on a higher voltage was pretty crazy. I thought my shell was going to fly apart during some of my tests.

What battery are you running it off of? You can't just run them off Trustfires. The Tamiyas have a large stall current draw, and a fairly large constant current draw - Trustfires can't supply enough current, that was the whole point of my mod haha. I'm only running it at 4.2V, off a Li-Po that can deliver 25A of continuous current, and even more in bursts. Also, they're supposed to be run off a max of 4.5V.

I experience no wait in between shots. I'll try to take a video this weekend.

#325573 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by azrael on 21 January 2013 - 07:49 PM in Modifications

This is a quick run through of what I did to a Stryfe I picked up yesterday.
I don't think this is something everyone should do, as technically, what I did is dangerous. There are safer ways to do this, but I was lazy. I'll elaborate later in the post. As electrical engineers, we know what we're doing. mostly, haha.
This is not a tutorial, and this is not in depth. We did this rather on the fly, and will be doing the same process later this week with a Rayven.

What we used:
18 gauge wire, red and black
Plasti-dip spray paint
Hakko FX-888 soldering iron
lead free solder (harder to use, but the fact that it melts at higher temperatures is better for our purposes here)
Tamiya Hyper Dash motors
8.2V LiPo Battery and connectors

I wanted to mess around with an electronic blaster, as opposed to air powered and plunger type ones for a change. A friend of mine got the new Elite edition of the Rayven, so I picked up the Stryfe.
He happened to have some Tamiya Hyper Dash motors lying around from a quad copter project, so we decided on a whim to put them in:
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Notice there are no caps on these motors, as on stock ones. They're not necessary, since there is no signal here. We don't care about their effect in a system like this. Just wanted to point that out.

I have read someone tried Tamiya motors in a Rayven before without success. To that guy, I say, "wat a nub". I remembered reading that he kept overvolting it to get the motors started, and even then it didn't work well.
That's not how to use Tamiya motors. They run at a maximum of 4.5V, but draw a lot more current. So that would be one Trustfire in this case - 3.7V. Not good enough - it can't supply nearly enough current. I'll explain my approach later.
Notice I also left the Thermistors out. Why? These motors run hot! Those thermistors will be doing their job too well. Plus we KNOW we're running at a safe voltage here, so there's no chance of burning them out.

Also, I use teflon insulated wire, in this pic, should be able to handle the higher current demands with no problem.
I remembered a cool trick Coop did to his flywheels on his Stryfe, namely painting them with Plasti-dip. Great idea! I just put one coat on, but will be adding more later.
Posted Image
About to reassemble here...
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You'll notice I left the locks in. I ended up taking out the jam door electronic lock, but that's it.
To explain, leaving the locks in prevents many possible problems with the motors stalling or jamming - which is something we don't want to do. Motors draw a significantly greater amount of current when starting up or stalling.
Looks like I took this picture before I replaced the wiring...I only brought one color of Teflon insulated wire with me, so I replaced the red and black wires with 18 gauge wire appropriately colored, which will be safer to run all that current through them.

I popped out the orange wall thingies in the battery drawer:
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and shaved off the blue divider, too:
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Notice the connector. Yep, that's a lithium polymer battery connection. That's how I'll be powering this thing! Way more current supply on tap, way more efficient.
Here it is charging:
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We are charging it so that both cells are the same voltage. Why? Because we are going to take it apart! this battery is an 8.2V cell. We need 4.2V.
So we're going to disconnect the cells, and put them in parallel for higher current supply.
This is the extremely dangerous part I referred to. We are charging them first so they are balanced, so we don't want any crazy voltage offset sparking when we do connect them. These discharge can a lot of current, so don't lick them or let them short circuit. YOU WILL DIE. srs bsns.
Here's a picture as we pull it apart:
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Connected in series, see?
We're going to connect the positive terminals together, and the negative terminals together. This will give us 4.2V.
Now, I said there was a safer way...They do make one cell LiPos. We just didn't have any, and we didn't feel like ordering them.
I won't go over the exact process because it's not safe for the average nerfer to try. So I didn't want people duplicating it.

Everything back together:
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We don't have actual measurements, but I would say around 80-90 feet.
Comparable to a overvolted Rayven, but here's the best part: at almost less than half the noise!

Hopefully get a video in this week, when we get our proper one cell LiPos in the mail....and our Tamiya Plasma Dashes! Even faster RPM woo!
I will also be installing Dynamat dampening material in it to see how much that helps.

So what did this accomplish?
Hopefully a different approach than just sticking Ultrafires in a blaster.
Put really nice motors in a blaster.
Quieter than overvolting.

EDIT: For people reading this, I no longer use this battery, because it's silly dangerous haha, and also I'm now using Mach Dash Pro motors, which have higher RPM and a more torque than Hyper Dashes. Less current draw than Plasma Dashes, which run far too hot to be useful in this purpose. They might work if you use lead free solder, I guess. The Mach Dashes are almost as fast, though.

#325770 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by azrael on 25 January 2013 - 03:18 AM in Modifications

I don't think its possible to get enough torque out of a 130 size motor to keep the flywheel speed up while firing a dart. The best we can do is reduce the problem. If you listen carefully you can hear it even on my "high-torque" robotics motors. The moment the dart head contacts the flywheels the RPMs take a massive dump and have to spin back up after. It happens fast, and definitely faster then with the OE motors but its still audible.

Also, do the math. The flywheels are approximately 4" in circumference. Multiply (RPMs X 4")/12" and you get your theoretical dart speed. My darts shoot≈90ft ptg and leave the gun going 100fps (measured with a balistics chronograph.) That calculates to 300rpm. My motors are 25,000rpm. The problem is obvious. That tells me I don't even need 1000rpm free-running speed if I can get a motor strong enough to pass a dart without losing more then 50% of its speed. The only thing these high RPMs are doing is storing inertial energy in the flywheels, which does help but not enough. I suppose there's an argument to be made for adding mass to the flywheels as long as the post-shot re-spin-up isn't too slow.

Someone please be my hero and convert their blaster to larger diameter brushless motors. It would require major reconstructive surgery on the blaster but the results would be in a whole 'nother universe.

After a while crocigator

surely you don't need much torque to toss a dart that only weighs 50 grams?

Can you explain your math? I'm not following where you derived that from... It definitely seems like an oversimplified model to follow.

One thing that your analysis doesn't explain is that dart speed remains pretty constant with rapid fire shots for me. If it was losing that much energy I would think it be apparent after a shot. I'm pretty sure these motors have plenty of torque for our purposes.

#325732 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by azrael on 24 January 2013 - 06:54 PM in Modifications

Its low risk, sure. But at 40,000-60,000+ RPM that some of these racing motors spin at its definitely possible for someone to have an anomalous weak flywheel disintegrate at speed. Low risk but high penalty. It only takes a pair of safety glases to protect your eyes if you're bench-testing.

The Tamiya Dash series of motors run $15-$20 shipped. There's a very good $5 alternative that I'm going to post about in a few days. I'm also going to test some $40ea AtomicMods motors just for giggles. I'm currently trying to decide whether torque or speed is more important for our application. If it is speed then the Plasma Dash motor is probably as good as its going to get, but I'm leaning towards torque being more important and these boutique slot-car motor manufacturers don't publish very good performance data so its a little tricky selecting the right motor.

After a while crocodile.

The Plasma Dash is rated for 25000 RPM, 29k without a load. Nothing insaaaaane, IMO.
EDIT: Just looked up the AtomicMods you mentioned, definitely take care with those!

What's a good amount of torque, in your opinion?

The Hyper Dash 2s in mine now have no trouble gripping and flinging darts, I believe they have 10 grams per cm.
The Plasma Dash has 20 grams per cm.

The Plasma Dash is probably the priciest one, it's not hard to get it for less than 11 dollars each if you look. I just used Google. Shipping was like 5 bucks altogether for 4 motors.

#325716 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by azrael on 24 January 2013 - 04:26 PM in Modifications

The Hyper Dash 2s were something he had lying around, so I'm not sure.
The Plasma Dashes I ordered were 10.50 each.

#325919 Stryfe Modification - Something slightly different...

Posted by azrael on 27 January 2013 - 05:35 PM in Modifications

Quick update.
We tried the Plasma Dashes, and got some Dynamat.

The Plasma Dashes draw too much current, and since our batteries can actually supply the current they need, the momentary switches in the acceleration trigger switch fry. I would guess they are only rated for 2A of continuous current, which is what the current draw of the Hyper Dash 2s just clocks under. According to my multimeter, they have a continuous current draw of 1.8A.

Plasma Dashes easily draw twice that, and their stall current is even greater than that.

Hah, totally forgot about checking the current rating for the switches. So that's the limiting factor.
The system can totally work, if you want to do a work around. You can either get higher rated switches, which are usually significantly bigger or the other idea we had. We were thinking about using the stock switches to actuate a BJT to do the switching. However, the BJT will still be dissipating a good amount of heat, so it will need to properly rated and heatsinked as well.
All in all, the Plasma Dashes run really hot, to the point where continuous fire is not too sustainable.

I ended up putting back in the Hyper Dash 2s, and infamous used some Torque Tuned Tamiyas we had lying around. The Torque tuned feature 14g per cm, compared to the Hyper Dash 2's 10g per cm, but have a lower RPM.

We are considering getting Mach Dashes, which have 20g per cm, and still have a high RPM. These have almost half the current draw of the Plasma Dashes, but a bit more than the Hyper Dash 2s.

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I installed a voltmeter, which is hooked up the acceleration trigger, so I know how much of the battery is drained.
You can see the Dynamat lining. It does work, and it does help. My gun is quieter than before, all vibration has stopped. There is still noise of course, but it's only from the motors. Pretty cool.
I also redid all my wiring with teflon insulated wire.

It's worth noting that while the Dynamat helps in the Rayven infamous owns, since the flywheel enclosure isn't bolted, there's a lot more rattling than in a Stryfe.