Wouldn't "2s motors" like meishel 2.0 perform better at 7.2 volts than "3s motors" on 7.2 volts?

If not, what is the upside of running 3s motors on 7.2 volts over 2s motors?

I know nothing about meishel motors.

As for running 7.2v (or a 2s equivalent pack) on a "3s" motor, like MTB Rhinos, I don't know of any advantage besides not having flywheels run so fast that they shoot darts that are highly inaccurate.  When I planned my MTB Rhino'd Stryfe, I intended to run it off an 8 cell AA pack. I tested it on 6, 7 and 8 cells and noticed that I got only marginally reduced range on 6 cells (as opposed to 8), yet the precision (groupings) of my darts were much better on 6 cells than 8.

Your "2s voltage" nimh pack has the current/amperage to run a "3s motor" effectively?

Of course! And it's certainly better than IMRs.

People push high end LiPo packs and those batteries are certainly good for a MTB Rhino'd Stryfe, but what really matters is whether the batteries can support sustained current draws. Those "stall" currents only last for a few fractions of a second while the flywheels rev up and in between shots, you don't need those fancy LiPo packs to ensure your flywheels can accelerate back to full speed quickly. So why do people recommend high end LiPos? I have a few theories.

First, LiPos are far more finicky and dangerous than NiMH and NiCd (nickel based) batteries. If you pull too much current (within reason) from a nickel based battery you know what you get? A battery that is too hot to touch and a reduced battery life. You do that with a LiPo, and you have a ruined battery pack or fire. So when you work work LiPos your margin for error is far less than with nickel batteries.

Second, ignorance. People will follow the instructions of another without understanding why a certain recommendation is given. 

Third, spec-whoring. This is related to ignorance, but someone will want to use the biggest, coolest, neatest part even if it's unnecessary so that they can tell themselves they have the "best." There's nothing wrong with this and I'm guilty of that too with some of the things I build or buy, so I'm not knocking it.

Example: people recommending 14 or 16 gauge wire for rewired Stryfes or other flywheel blasters. Totally not necessary. A nice r/c hobby quality 18 or 20 gauge wire will do just fine and produce no noticeable drop in performance compared to thicker wire. The bonus is that it's much easier to work with. Am I saying a 20 gauge wire performs exactly the same as a 16 gauge wire, all else being equal? No, of course not, but generally, you're not going to notice a difference in your MTB Rhino'd Stryfe.

My 6 cell AA Eneloop powered MTB Rhino Stryfe shoots 100+ FPS darts (Gen 3 Koosh) in sub-zero temperatures with 20 gauge wire and Micro Deans connectors. Also, after about 4 hours or so of constant running, my 2000mah Eneloops cells still have about 70% of their rated capacity still left. It's performance is lightyears ahead of a stock Stryfe (obviously). If I used 16 gauge wire and Deans Ultra plugs with a 2s high end 3000mah LiPo that can handle 80C current draws would I get better performance? I assume so, but I doubt it would be more than slightly noticeable, if it's even noticeable at all.

From my research, what really makes a difference is the darts and flywheels, as they affect the accuracy and precision of your shooting the most.

I assume this is a joke.

http://nerfhaven.com...tryfe/?p=350442

From thermocouples to blood pressure cuffs to blood sugar testers, I know from personal experience and reading spec sheets that getting inaccurate and/or inconsistent results in to be expected from a consumer product and that's what your chronograph appears to be, especially given its price. I know growing up, I wondered why lab equipment was so expensive compared to what you can get from the average store. Turns out it was the equipment's level of accuracy and precision. That's a major reason why professional or mission critical equipment costs significantly more than the "everyday" version of the equipment.

As for whether or not your chronograph is inaccurate, I can't say, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it's reading lower readings than it should. I guess the real questions are whether you can re-calibrate it and if the inaccuracy is consistent, i.e. you're still able to maintain precision.

Would 8 eneloop aa nimh batteries in that pack even have high enough of a discharge rate to power any motors besides the stock stryfe 130 motors?

All of this is still a bit over my head, and honestly quite discouraging...

Which makes me lean back towards imr...

Or just using a big 7.2volt 3000mah nimh rc car pack in a stock...

Which 130 motors would you suggest for a 6 c batttery 7.2v 3000mah nimh pack mostly used in rc cars?

The fact that you're comparing the discharge rate of Eneloop cells with IMRs is evidence of your lack of battery knowledge and understanding...but then again, that's why you're here. Eneloops can handle high amp draws from a MTB Rhino'd Stryfe no problem. In a 6 (remember, MTB Rhinos are designed to run off 8 cell NiMH or 3S voltages) cell AA Eneloop pack, I was getting 100 FPS+ muzzle velocity with Gen 3 Koosh darts in subzero temps (I chrono'd it while it was snowing). That being said, a 3000mah 7.2v R/C pack will probably handle higher currents better than the AA Eneloops.

I don't know as much about motor recommendations. I know my MTB Rhinos work well in my Stryfe with my Eneloop AAs. The reason you don't hear much about NiMH AAs is because you generally have to make your own packs and most people in the Nerf community know diddly squat about electrical theory and have zero soldering skills.

I have done a similar thing with a regular 18 dart box mag and a 18 dart Firefly mag. The battery holder in the Firefly mag serves as a mag spacer so I have 36 darts much in the same way you have 24 darts. Of course, your method provides for a more "balanced" blaster (I've always found the 18 dart box mags unwieldy).

Say I bought one of the eneloop square 2x2x2 tx packs (either with thin wiring/connector, or the cassete type 2x2x2 pack with no wiring/connector) from the hangtime website you linked and added 18awg silicone wire to match the wiring going into my stryfe, which connector would you suggest I use on the battery pack?

Which charger would you suggest for the 8 aa eneloop pack with _____ connector?

I personally use the Micro Deans connector b/c of it's small size (and good enough performance), but a WS Deans 2 pin Ultra plug connector is what I'd recommend if you didn't use the Micro connector.

So pretty much my only 2 options if wanting 8 eneloop aa nimh in a square 2x2x2 pack are buy a transmitter pack and desolder/resolder the wire/plug connector, or make it from scratch with loose aa eneloops?

Was really hoping to find a drop in 8 eneloop aa pack

As far as I know, yes, but I don' t exactly what's available on the market right now. You'll have to do some research, I guess.

Is it the thin wiring that makes a "transmittor" pack not so good, or the cells used in the pack? Could I just desolder them an solder on a differnt connector with thicker gauge wiring?

I plan to, and am capable of, rewiring the whole blaster, I'm just not on top of electrical theory. I don't really know much about any of the specs like discharge c rating etc, just volts.... which is why I need help picking a high quality "square" 2x2x2 8aa nimh pack that will perform well, and a charger that works with said pack. I'm not sure what my nimh charger can handle, it just came with 2 nimh rc car packs I bought from radioshack. I'm guessing it only works with the 7.2v nimh packs it came with and id need a new charger for this.

Would eneloop pro aa cells be better than "regular" eneloop aa cells?

If it's from Radio Shack, I'd get a different charger.

In our application (Nerf) Pro (black) AA Eneloop cells aren't better than regular, because they have higher internal resistance than regular (White). Yes, they have higher capacity, but 2,000mah of capacity is more than enough for a solid day's worth of Nerfing with a Stryfe, so the extra 500mah or so isn't worth the drop in power due to higher internal resistance of the cells.

As for the Tx packs only flaw being the thin wire, I presume that's true, but I can't know for sure unless I see the pack in person. But generally speaking, yes, the bottle neck of a Tx (transmitter) pack is going to be the plug and wires, assuming it's using a high quality cell like an Eneloop. Another variable is the spot welds, but there's not much you can do about that short of making your own pack, which I get the impression you can't or don't feel comfortable doing.

Seems like all the 8 aa "square" 2x2x2 nimh packs are listed as transmittor battery. Is that what I want to avoid? I'm not tooo on top of electrical theory which is why I need help picking mah and discharge ratings etc

Yes it is, assuming they make it with thin gauge wire and a R/C radio connector attached to it. If you want a 2x2x2 pack to be as efficient as possible, you'll need to make it yourself or find a battery supplier to make one for you using the proper gauge wire and connector of your choice. I think cheapbatterypacks.com still offers this service. EDIT:  I see that they're no longer in business. http://www.hangtimes.com/txpacks.htmlseems to be a decent place from what I hear. Their "cassette" Eneloop packs would work for you, although you'd need to do some soldering on your own and you need to be very careful handling a pack that powerful with bare metal contacts everywhere; it's really easy to short out the pack if you're not careful (trust me from experience).

My rc car nimh packs are 6 c sized cells and way to big for my stryfe.

8 aa nimh pack is as big as I would want to go, as anything bigger wouldn't fit stryfe battery tray with larger door.

Will my charger (that came with my 6 c sized cell 7.2volt nimh rc packs) work for an 8 aa cell 9.6volt nimh pack, or would I need a charger specifically for 9.6v 8 aa nimh pack?

I could really use some suggestions for the "best" 8 aa cell nimh pack. I don't want cheap knockoff pack with stickers or sleeves thatt make it look like a legit pack.

Also could really use some suggestions on ratings/specs other than voltage that would make a 9.6volt 8 aa pack perform well in a stryfe.

Depends on the charger. How many cells can it handle? Nicer chargers can handle a wide range of cells (and voltages).

As for cells, Eneloops are great. They have the added advantage of being low self-discharge, too.

I would consider a AA nimh pack if possible. I was thinking possibly 2x2x2 8 cell aa nimh pack should fit in the stock battery tray with an expanded battery door. I hope.

Should be 9.6v I believe (or would you suggest a 7.2 volt 6 cell aa pack for some reason?)but what other specs should I be looking for? Which brand 8 aa nimh pack should I be looking for? Which battery connector would you all suggest? I already have an nimh charger (with I think its called tamiya connector) for my 7.2v 6 c cell nimh rc car packs. I'm not sure if it would work for a 9.6v aa nimh pack though...

Aside from the correct aa nimh pack, which motors would you all suggest to go with said correct nimh pack?

That battery pack you pictured (2x2x2) should fit in a stock Stryfe battery tray. Whether an expanded door will also fit that battery pack, I don't know.

I would suggest a 6 cell AA NiMH pack,  but that's my experience and if you read the exchange between Meaker VI and I in this thread, you'll see that an 8 cell pack might be better, depending on the darts you're using. You may just have to experiment and see for yourself. That's what I ended up doing: directly comparing a 6 cell and 8 cell Eneloop AA NiMH pack.

More discussion from leaders in the field, including the guy who designed Rhinos. There's someone in there arguing for 2s Rhinos, but anecdotally. No one bothers to shoot the accuracy part of his posts down because he hasn't prooven it and his anecdote doesn't play well with the math. Until I see someone recommend Rhinos on 2s with real testing to back themselves up, I'll stick to my 3s setup and use the motors as-intended.

However, darts play a HUGE role in how accurate your setup is/isn't. It is very possible that the darts that are being used with these setups are unstable after ~110 FPS and so reducing the RPMs keeps them more consistent by keeping the FPS down. It's also possible that their acceleration all happens in a manner different than most darts and the super-critical RPM value is actually lower because of it. What that tells me is that you need different darts. I use USCs, Elites, and FVJs with the occasional Waffle thrown in and not Koosh, so maybe I'm not noticing issues I would if I were.

You may have hit the nail on the head with that bolded statement. I know that with Gen 3 Koosh darts and MTB Rhinos, I get significantly better accuracy/consistency with my groupings on a 6 cell AA NiMH setup than an 8 cell AA setup. The biggest reason why may be the darts. But at the time I built my superstock setup with the Stryfe, waffle darts didn't exist or weren't well known in the Nerf/NIC community. As for FVJs, since they're not allowed in many games/wars, I never considered their use.

I find this suspect. Nerf darts have never been great for accuracy, and it's possible that what you're seeing is a dart going wider because of the greater range.

Again, my rhino'd 3s lipo'd otherwise stock stryfe (strayvan) disagrees. In practice against other stock and lightly modded opponents and opponents using stock motors, my blaster was outperforming the opposition in every way, including accuracy over distance.

Also, running the motors on less current than they are designed for seems to stem from a misunderstanding of how they actually are supposed to work. At the proper current, they spin at "supercritical" RPM's - fast enough that shots in rapid succession don't diminish FPS for each dart because the wheels are spinning so fast that the energy they carry can't all be transferred at once. Giving them less current doesn't nessecarily decrease FPS for the first shot or two, but can decrease consistency when fired in rapid succession and should increase spinup time which also leads to inconsistency.

If you want to run a 2s solution (~6-9v), use 2s motors like squiggles or the new Mishel (sp?) motors. They're designed to run supercritical on a 2s source.

Find it suspect all you want. Based on my observations and anecdotal evidence from others, there's is a correlation between higher RPMs and more inaccurate shooting. This is not a perfect correlation because not everyone uses the same equipment and darts, whether it's stock, Gen 3 Kooshes (that's what I use), waffle, FVJ or w/e.

Additionally, there will be variability in manufacturing of the stock FWC and motors (or most other motors for that matter). You mentioned comparing your set up to other people's set up. That's an apples and oranges comparison. What you need to do is compare your current set up (with a 3s LiPo battery) to a 2s LiPo battery. My hypothesis is that your accuracy/consistency will improve. How much, I can't say and even if there is a difference, the loss in FPS and range may not be worth the increase in  accuracy. 

The bottom line is that you can't assume that just because you increase your cell count, you'll get higher FPS and ranges while maintaining accuracy/consistency. Some people may be able to, but a large number of people won't be able to.

Meaker:

With a stock FWC in a Stryfe, with MTB Rhinos, using 8.4v+ NiMH packs and Gen 3 Koosh darts produced very inaccurate darts (from my perspective). From my research online about a year ago, turns out this is normal. The higher FPS produced higher ranges, but significantly less precision, i.e. consistency with the darts. But if I used a 7.2v (6 cell) NiMH setup, the precision/consistency was noticeably better, and range (FPS) was only slightly reduced.

My point is everyone thinks higher FPS is better, but in practice that's rarely the case, because in order to get the higher FPS and range, accuracy/precision must be sacrificed.

 

This isn't quite true. Buy a 12V NIMH pack (AA size cells should be sufficient), and use rhinos with Artifact or Hooligan wheels in a 43mm OFP cage. That would be my pick for best setuo that does not require lipo. NIMH is extremely safe, and hard to damage.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I designed the OFP cages. But Artifact would also provide good performance. 

I'd like to clarify a few things.

First, a 12v NiMH pack (which would be 10 cells) is too much voltage for the MTB Rhinos. In my Stryfe setup, I run only 6 AA NiMH cells with MTB Rhinos and the stock FWC. The FPS will very likely be too high and cause darts to shoot wildly in a 12v NiMH setup. This is my experience with Gen 3 Koosh and stock Elite darts. Perhaps your darts can handle the high FPS, but that would be news to me. Also, perhaps these third party FWC can keep Gen 3 Koosh and other darts reasonably accurate at a high FPS. If so, I'm curious to learn more about them. Maybe a video showing their performance?

Second, AA size cells are sufficient, if they are high quality cells. Make sure the cells are low resistance and can handle high current draws. If the AA battery pack is designed for a low drain application like a transmitter battery pack, it's not going to performance very well (or as well as it could) with MTB Rhinos.

Compared to LiPo cells, it's true that NiMH cells are extremely safe and hard to damage, but that doesn't mean they're indestructible. You still need to charge them at reasonable rates (1-2C max for AA cells; ideally at 0.5 to 1C; they can't handle high charge rates very well, even the best AA NiMH cells out there).

Ok, I just got back from another goodwill and they had no Nerf blasters; is this normal for goodwills? I've already went to two, and never saw a Nerf blaster. However, the one that I went to today had some weird knockoff gun. Hopefully my community's garage sale day on the 10th will prove more productive. I really need that Longshot...
Thank for the tips so far... Are there any other pointers for finding a specific blaster when thrifting?
Thanks all

From my experience in the USA, yes.

I would put chain thrift stores such as Goodwill, lower on your priority list. You can tell that they screen their donations, so the nicer things, including Nerf blasters, aren't sold in stores, but online. This doesn't mean you can't find anything there, but it's much harder to do.

A community rummage/garage/yard sale is going to be your best bet, not just for finding Nerf blasters, but doing so at a cheap price.

When I find Nerf blasters in formal stores, they're almost always at a higher price than at a local yard sale. I recently picked up a stock Demolisher (but no stock) for 50 cents and a Sledgefire for 75 cents (no darts, but had 1 shell). If I found these at a thrift store, they would have been $2-$5 each (still a decent deal, but nowhere near as good as a yardsale deal).

But then there are exceptions to the rule. I got a stock OJ Stryfe for free at a thrift store because it had a faulty jam door switch (it wouldn't work unless you manually opened the jam door and used your finger or pen to actuate the jam door switch.

Yardsales have spoiled me. I won't pay over a dollar for a single blaster, unless it's worth a lot (and I can resell it) or I would otherwise buy it from eBay or NH.

What's a Ranger One?

If a chest rig will handle 18 dart box mags no problem, why wouldn't it handle a 12 dart box mag? Maybe I'm misreading something?

Also, if you're going into Nerf without regard to cost (lucky you!) and you also know you're getting this chest rig anyways, what exactly are you asking for?

https://www.amazon.c...ding=UTF8&psc=1

Recommend these, cheap and reliable. Holds 12x18rounders at max capacity.

+1

That's what I use and I've very happy with it, even when I'm using it to hold twelve 18 dart box bags.

Gen 3 Koosh darts work pretty well in Stryfes (that's what I use). I don't know if they're better than the waffle darts, though.

Titan

The title says it all. How does hosting an event work? Do I just have people show up or do I need to talk to people associated with the park about it?

 

Edit: Damnit, looks like the title was too long

That would depend on the park. You may need to RSVP an area or confirm you're allowed to host a Nerf event. 

The wires will be fine. You'd be ok if you went to 18awg, although if you have the room in the Zeus, it can't hurt to use the thicker 16awg wire.

So does that translate into working better or worse for accuracy and fps? My guess is maybe actually worse because of the gaping and un-even hole in the tip, I don't know any physics yet though but im guessing you do slug

I think it's going to come down to simple testing.

I'm curious as to how these would do in flywheel blasters.

Depends on exactly what you need. Depending on your barrel and NIC blaster set up, you may need stefans of a particular length and diameter. And do you want domes or slugs?

Whatever you want, some people will be able to make them and sell them here on NH (such as myself, but I just make #6 or #8 slugs; no domes from me).

From a voltage perspective, a 2S LiPo will work well with MTB Rhinos. You may not get the highest FPS, but you'll get tighter groupings (at least this is the case with Koosh Gen 3 darts). Speedr117 is correct in that MTB Rhinos are designed for 3S battery packs, but they still work great at lower voltages. In my opinion, they work better at around 7.5 volts.

However, I don't know how well a 2S LiPo pack that has 850mah capacity will be able to handle the current draw. I use Eneloop AA NiMHs with my MTB Rhinos (in a 6 cell pack configuration which is very close to a 2S LiPo setup).

I know it can run a 3s lipo, but I want to know what the absolute MAXIMUM voltage it can run before burning up.

If you really want an answer, here it is: it depends. You can overvolt them as much as you want as long as you're willing to deal with a much shorter life. But how much of a shorter life is anyone's guess.

So then the question is, if you increased the voltage by X volts, how much of a shorter life will you have? But before you can answer that question, you need to know how much of a shorter life you are willing to deal with. 

TLDR: Just buy a second set of motors, run your desired voltage and keep track of the run times. If they last long enough for you (assuming nothing melts), you have your answer. If they don't, use less voltage and run them again, keeping track of how long they last. 

Very, very cool. It makes the Demolisher look the way it always should have.

OP,

I've seen your prior posts and you seem pretty smart (unlike many other posters here and elsewhere online). Therefore, I firmly believe all you need to do is search on NH for "absolver" and look at the pictures of what people have done. There is no "trick" or special part to use. It's honestly as simple as figuring how to guide high pressure air from one opening into a 3 or 7 bundle of barrels.

I made my own set of absolver shells and couplers by going to a bigbox hardware store and looking at what PVC screw and friction fit couplers, pipes, tubes, and other doodads they had and just brainstormed internally for 15 minutes. I then bought a wide variety of sizes and shapes (they're so cheap) went to my workshop and just experimented with only hot glue, a saw, a mitre box, epoxy, PVC cement, an X-acto knife blade, and polystyrene card stock. Literally, that's all I did and was able to figure it out despite being one of the lowest IQ members on NH.

Here, look at what I did:

http://nerfhaven.com...0-fs-mav-titan/

No, I don't have the part numbers or exact dimensions, but you don't need them if you go to a bigbox hardware store and just spend an extra $4.75 on PVC parts.

In hindsight, I would have used a screw couple with a larger opening, but that's the only thing I would have changed.

You could use CPVC in a 3 shot or 7 shot configuration (assuming the 7 shot configuration fits; the 3 shot definitely would).

Very neat!

I ran a modded Nemesis in the NYCNO war last weekend. It's an excellent suppression weapon. Especially with an expanded hopper and paintball pods. Rival rounds are coming down in price, and I find they last much much longer than darts. I have usable rival balls which have seen dozens of wars. Mengun and especially waffles don't seem nearly as durable.

I'm excited to run mine at APOC

I could see you walking around, spraying ammo with a few escorts using "conventional" NIC blasters to keep long-range players away from you. Almost like infantry support protecting a tank in urban warfare.

If I had the money, I'd probably change my Super Stock gear to Rivals stuff. Oh well, what I've got now work's pretty well.

I think this type of setup would be a game changer for certain game types, even in NIC games. I think the biggest drawback will be money spent on ammo, though.

When I say "gear," I'm primarily referring to the overall loadout, i.e. amount of darts, mags, modified flywheel blaster, etc.

 

...Equipment does not matter; the player (and terrain, and moderation of the game) does....

I wouldn't go THAT far, but your point is well noted. I've noticed how teamwork, physical conditioning and strategy can easily trump equipment. But on the flipside, If you have the right set up, you can absolute demolish your opposition that isn't well equipped, even if they are in better physical condition and are an overall "better" player.

If you don't know how to do that, you shouldn't be taking commissions.

I don't know for sure if they would work,  but even if they do, they're not going to be the most efficient given their internal resistance.

I would strongly recommend against using such cheap lithium cells with high performance motors. You could make a 6-8 cell AA NiMH battery pack that should work ok with the MTB Rhinos (assuming you use respectable cells). But then that would take you additional time and effort and cut into your profit margins.

Your call.

Makes sense.

With regards to the accuracy issue, are you having whirly bird issues when using darts, like Koosh darts? I had this exact problem and to fix it, I simply sanded out my Rapidstrike "rifled" barrel. Or you can use a "straight" barrel, like from a first generation Raider.