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#311452 Grid Code Indoor Nerf War in PA

Posted by DX-Robert on 18 February 2012 - 09:51 PM in Nerf Wars

I might be a bit late depending on when I get out the door and how the highways are flowing. Alarm is set for 5:30, see ya tomorrow bright and early.



#311580 Grid Code Indoor Nerf War in PA

Posted by DX-Robert on 21 February 2012 - 11:21 AM in Nerf Wars

I loved the war, although I am still struggling to walk up and down stairs. It was definitely worth the fee and the drive. They could heat the place a bit more though - the white log home darts I made for this war just wouldn't feed in my hopper. Even my usual gray & green NJNO darts were misfeeding sometimes. I came back from one of the CTF rounds with 3 darts crammed into the plunger tube. FYI on barrel taps, you don't actually have to physically "tap" the person. Just hold it close and announce a barrel tap. They'll take the hit and appreciate not getting rammed.

As for the hit controversy, I don't call bogus hits. When it's iffy, I won't call it at all unless I see it physically make contact. Even then, if there's any reasonable doubt, we work it out and usually I just let it go. When you're holding a raider and a dart hits dead center of your drum, it obviously did not hit the nearby tire stack. From about 15ft, it makes a noise that is very distinctive and in that case, I watched it make contact. Gun hits count and it was about as clean of a gun hit as you can get. That wasn't the only time this became an issue, but it was the most memorable. The game isn't about winning, it's about having fun. Getting hit is part of the game. Some rounds you win, some rounds you lose, some rounds you don't make it to the end. The shooter shouldn't even have to "call" hits anyway, if you're hit, 75% of the time you know it outright.



#199704 Pa War 2

Posted by DX-Robert on 30 December 2008 - 12:16 AM in Nerf Wars

This war is going to be quite the tossup. I'd really love to go, but the logistics are a mess. At this point it looks like the only way I'll make it is by arriving in PA by train the day before and spending the night with someone in the local area. Any takers? :)



#199057 Pa War 2

Posted by DX-Robert on 26 December 2008 - 08:34 PM in Nerf Wars

There is a good chance that I could attend this war.



#200574 Pa War 2

Posted by DX-Robert on 02 January 2009 - 02:19 PM in Nerf Wars

Dude, you only live like a few miles away from the war! It's really not that difficult when you're within walking distance - you can cover up to 6 miles in 1:30. Meanwhile, I'm 180 miles out trying to think of various creative ways to attend without spending more than $200. At this point, I'm most likely out.



#77064 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 20 March 2006 - 09:26 PM in Nerf Wars

My friends and I are involved with video/TV production at/outside of school. We have like 5 cameras, so that's no problem.

Speaking of the date, I have a track meet on the 1st. Good thing it is at home, and somewhat early. So I don't think we can start as early as hoped. Perhaps noon? or 1? Saying that I have a huge Nerf war to go to isn't going to fly with my coach.



#77123 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 21 March 2006 - 06:11 PM in Nerf Wars

I'm kinda important to my team...but good thing we have more than one commander. As long as we can still muster a good amount of people, the war could go off at the agreed time. A few other members are also affected by the track meet, so they will arrive with me then.



#76534 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 16 March 2006 - 05:51 PM in Nerf Wars

The actual name of the park is Kings Pond Park, north of the Goffle Brook Park printed on maps. [Therefore located in Ridgewood/Glen Rock instead of Hawthorne]

Even if you still show up at the wrong park, you can tell if it is right or not. Large rolling fields surrounded by major roads = no, large forest, pond, one field, and composting lot at the end of the road = yes.

Simply put, follow Lakeview Ave until it ends.


If someone goes to the Goffle Brook Park in Hawthorne/Glen Rock by error, following the brook north will take them into the correct Kings Pond Park in Glen Rock/Ridgewood. It is a really obvious change, since the official Goffle Park is open fields vs our park is heavily wooded.



#76072 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 13 March 2006 - 08:13 PM in Nerf Wars

Certainly, they are waiting to be used. As long as it is sunny and dry, otherwise that lot is nasty. It is, after all, a composting lot. :rolleyes:

I also have to get down to the park to see how high the water is at the dam. If it's at normal level, I have to find a new board to lie across it for people to cross. Or if you have good reflex strength you can jump the gap like I do...

Those pictures are actually quite old [Fall 2004], but nothing much has changed. Still looks near exactly like it does in the pictures.



#77272 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 22 March 2006 - 09:08 PM in Nerf Wars

Park location = Ridgewood/Glen Rock instead of Hawthorne. Since there is a large park in Hawthorne just downstream, that would create a lot of confusion. They will be looking for Lakeview Dr and not finding it since it isn't down there. ^_^

NB: Lakeview Dr is off of Lake Ave, don't confuse them! I will be making directions from the major highways tomorrow.



#71364 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 20 January 2006 - 10:12 PM in Nerf Wars

Heh, just noticed the nice alliteration in the title. Anyway, I was just curious whom nerfs around here in Northern NJ, specifically Bergen County. There's even a slight chance that someone on this forum is involved with the Dart Wars Competition at Ridgewood High School, and therefore they might know me?



#78103 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 29 March 2006 - 10:28 PM in Nerf Wars

So when should the new date be? Might I remind you that I am still in high school, meaning my Spring Break starts mid-week next week plus the whole week after that. There are 2 Saturdays there, of which I will probably be spending looking at colleges. That's my plan for the whole break, really.

That's what I hate about big events-there's almost always something wrong with the dates.



#78308 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 01 April 2006 - 03:05 PM in Nerf Wars

The weather man was bullshitting us.
Its not raining, nor does it look like it will.


You're kidding, right? It POURED, and completely out of nowhere. My race ended literally 10 minutes before the rain came in. Although now the band has gone by and the sun is back.

Bad news, can't make the mini-war tomorrow, can't make the 8th, can't make the 15th either. I have a huge term paper due on Wednesday, and I have barely started the rough draft. It is going to be over 20 pages and will likely take all my time today, all my time tomorrow, all my time Monday, and all my time Tuesday. Not to mention my 2 Physics labs, math homework, Latin project, History project, and 3 English assignments.

The 8th and 15th are within my Spring Break, when I'll be visiting various college campuses, as well as many people in my clan will.



#78525 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 02 April 2006 - 08:29 PM in Nerf Wars

We don't need serious help, we just need more luck and less last-minute variables. I actually have a very good record over the past few years when it comes to throwing together events. Ironically, I had a successful 15 person water war the day before the Nerf war was supposed to be. But on Saturday there was the track meet, and right at the time the war was scheduled, the rain came pouring in as expected. The rain didn't last too long, but it was extremely heavy. I cannot control the constantly changing dates of my track meets, nor can I control acts of God. I spent all day today working on work, and I will be up into the wee hours of the morning. So the war and mini-war were cancelled out of luck and work rather than high school incompetence.

I will be pulling off 20-40 person water wars on a weekly basis starting next month, so I need no lectures on how to organize large events. But this Nerf War will have to wait until the weekend after my Spring Break, for reasons I have already explained.



#75973 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 12 March 2006 - 09:35 PM in Nerf Wars

Where: Goffle Brook Park, Hawthorne, NJ. (check back in this post for directions).


The actual name of the park is Kings Pond Park, north of the Goffle Brook Park printed on maps. [Therefore located in Ridgewood/Glen Rock instead of Hawthorne]

Even if you still show up at the wrong park, you can tell if it is right or not. Large rolling fields surrounded by major roads = no, large forest, pond, one field, and composting lot at the end of the road = yes.

Simply put, follow Lakeview Ave until it ends.



-There will be a huge sale after the war for trading, selling, and buying guns. Brings some money if you want to get yourself some new nerf weapons.


It would be much more useful if the sale occured before the war. :lol:



#78078 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 29 March 2006 - 06:51 PM in Nerf Wars

I'm for postponement. The reason why it will rain is because my first meet of the season is on Saturday, and we always get the worst weather on the first meet of Spring. Plus, not many from my team are going to be able to make it, myself included. I've calculated that the meet will take at least 5 hours, probably 8. And since I am the organizer for my clan, there probably would be no home team present for at least the 5 hours. On a different day, however, up to 10 of us could be there way ahead of time setting up.



#77569 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 25 March 2006 - 06:13 PM in Nerf Wars

My clan's pnuematic cannons will enforce order at this event. :P So if undesirable people are thinking of coming, think again...

I'm writing written directions for the highways around the area, so be patient.



#77289 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 22 March 2006 - 10:34 PM in Nerf Wars

11:00 to ~5:00, but I won't be able to make it until around noon or 1, depending on when our relay is up and how fast I can get from the track to the battlefield.



#75988 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 12 March 2006 - 10:31 PM in Nerf Wars

Some Pictures of the Park:

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Part of the "Heights."-A steep area along the west bank of the brook.

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The view from the top of the position in the previous picture.

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The general terrain of the east bank: steep to gradual forest sloping down to the brook.

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The treehouse.

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An abandoned building, the best one.

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The pond near the main entrance.

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View at the top of one of the trails on the east bank.

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The composting lot located near the entrance of the park.

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Another view from the Heights.

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The Upper Dam. [There's two, but this is the more important one]



#75002 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 02 March 2006 - 10:16 PM in Nerf Wars

You're about an hour-hour and a half away, depending on traffic.

  About the ages, I'm 13, turning 14 in may. I don't see how its a huge deal if the age difference is with 5 years....unless its a prob for you guys.


It's not really a problem, I just expect a wide age range which might present some issues. We don't have many modded guns to speak of, and a non-existant supply of stefans, so there's our handicap.



#75012 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 03 March 2006 - 07:12 AM in Nerf Wars

I think you meant asshole instead of loser, the word filter plays in there. I'm a co-commander and will probably use a mav, RF 20, homemade, or all 3.



#75931 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 12 March 2006 - 03:17 PM in Nerf Wars

It didn't take place, probably due to the rain. I know because I biked over to check the park to see if anyone was there. Half an hour after 2, I left.

Maybe another time?



#74992 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 02 March 2006 - 09:43 PM in Nerf Wars

Is this Goffle Brook Park that your talking about in Hawthorne? If so I'm like right down around there.


We use the northern part of it, which is not a piece of the official park, but the terrain is much more challenging. Goffle Park is mainly huge, level fields and some forests crossed by 5 roads, a school, a playground, and other buildings. Kings Pond Park, the name of the northern area, is heavily forested with both banks sloping steeply down to the brook. It is the more challenging of the two parks, and has great opportunities to use cover and height advantage. Either could work for Nerf, the Goffle Park is a bit far though, but not too much.

There are good parks along the Ho-Ho-Kus brook, and one a minute from my house behind a school. A park in Glen Rock may be the best choice since it is more between us, though I haven't been down there in a while. It shouldn't matter all that much, since it appears that you live basically right down Lincoln Ave or something.

This is a stupid question, but for wars, do you use stefans or just stock darts? If stefans, then I've got to stop being lazy and go out to buy the materials to make enough for the team.

Oh, no weapons restrictions should be necessary. It is a huge area, and I'd like to test out my homemades... ;) As long as long range is used responsibly, it is fine. You won't even need it, my team's weapons are mostly stock. :(



#74935 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 02 March 2006 - 04:35 PM in Nerf Wars

My team has a good-sized list of excellent places to fight, for a real Nerf war, we would just reuse our hardcore water war battlefields, medium-large mostly forested parks. The wilder the better, so I have a good one in mind, which follows the Goffle Brook for 2 miles. Since I have not fought a Nerf war with more than 4 people, is 2 miles fine, too much, or not enough?

Also, if we get this going, what should we do about clans of different ages? I have a feeling that the age range may be pretty significant. My team is 3-10 people, depending on how many can come on a given date, 16-17 years old, mostly 17.

We mostly nerf in the Memorial Park in Glen Rock. (The one with the outdoor skate rink)


That is fairly close to here. When do you have wars? Would you mind if we randomly popped up at one for a little surprise? :ph34r:



#72939 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 12 February 2006 - 03:25 PM in Nerf Wars

I love nerf, but can't seem to find anyone to nerf with. Maybe if we find more people in this area, we might get a war going. That would be awsome.


There seem to be plenty of people around here, so I am surprised that putting together a war is so difficult. I would think age range would be the largest problem, seeing as there are people on this forum way younger than I am and way older than I am. Some friends and I have been fighting casual wars here in Ridgewood, but less so in recent months due to the weather, sports, and schoolwork.



#74844 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 01 March 2006 - 06:19 PM in Nerf Wars

EDIT: Sorry Dux, not you.


I figured, since of course I know who Evil is. Forget my join date, the date I started browsing NH was Dec 04? Jan 05? Somewhere around there. I'm very different from other new members, and I've shown that, yet still am viewed as naive like the rest of the pack. I bet the other n00bs haven't been on the staff of 8+ forums [admin on most of those] and read NH for over a year before joining? :lol:

So guys, does anyone want to have a war somewhere? Any suggestions? Do you guys know of any good parks or places to have a war in north NJ? Lets not let this topic die, as I know many of you would be interested in having a war.


Depends, "north NJ" is very vague. Which county [ies] do you have in mind? I know quite a few good places to fight here in Bergen County, mostly in the town of Ridgewood. I agree though, a new war would be great.



#75051 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 03 March 2006 - 06:22 PM in Nerf Wars

I'll see if I can scope it out between now and the war. Dux, is it possible that you can find out exactly how many people from your clan are going to show up? That would be great. I will most likely not be bringing anyone along with myself, just me. I am glad to hear that you use tactics, this will be a great war. Also, do you use camo, or is that too much? I will have a real army belt with a real clip magazine pouch that I will use to carry my PC clips. Ill also have a pouch for extra ammo and extra barrels for my pvc couplered guns. I will get myself some camo if you guys are going to use it, especialyl since this will be in the woods. What are the "small abandoned buildings" like? They sound interesting. How many are there? It sounds as if you could use one of those buildings as a base and the other side of the field as another base.

You say there is one open field. I was wondering if you have any large object at your house that you could bring to the field as obsticles. I don't paintball, but my friends do. When they do paintball, they just go to an open field and bring picnic tables that they flip on their sides and use large garbage cans etc as cover. This could be a way to make the open field have some cover.


If you do scout it out ahead of time, it's the area at the end of Lakeview Ave near where Ridgewood borders Midland Park. The actual Goffle Park on maps is not the same place.

Camo is a bit too much although we use it to an extent. There is one abandoned building we call Arson because the roof was destroyed via fire, the rest are very small and short ruins. We have a position called High Point that is used as a base, an area with a stunning height advantage. Our general view on bases is not to have any, we move from position to position, but rarely fortify or hold a fortified position. Capture the Flag would be the exception.

There is no need to bring obstacles, many of the trees are quite thick and there are other things scattered around like stone walls and large bushes. The only open field has never seen combat, because it is not a strategic area.

Last, but not least, I can't be sure how many people can come yet. "The Ridgewood Militia" is named so because our numbers vary widely when we have wars. The roster has about 12 people on it, but the most that have ever showed up is 7. I'm thinking around 4-8 for this war.



#75046 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 03 March 2006 - 05:17 PM in Nerf Wars

About the Goffle Park, we would be fighting in the northern-most section, which is not labeled on Google Earth. Trust me, it is heavily forested with lovely height advantage areas, trails, and only one open lot and field. There is a treehouse in a remote corner, a dam, and some ruins of small abandoned buildings. The best part is the huge wooded terrain, very, very fun to fight in. It also requires one to have skill and stamina rather than relying on just tech and range.

My clan, although we have yet to fight a war against other teams, will apply tactics and the one hit kill style we already use in water gun fights. We love tactics and organized fighting. It is really a hybrid team, one that nerfs and soaks depending on the season. This war will be great for getting experience in nerf, while we are one of the best water war teams in the nation, I can't say the same for our Nerfing ability. :P Expect advanced tactics from us. -_-

Capture the Flag works great, 1HK elimination works great, 1HK lives works too. We could try a number of game types on the actual day, that doesn't matter much now.

Stefans are fine, while most of our guns are stock, I do have some modded ones that can take stefans if I make them. I think homemades should be allowed too, I have a few air pressure ones, single shot muzzle loaded, nothing fancy, and I am responsible when it comes to safe use of homemades.

As for date, a Saturday would be best, late March-early April sounds good. So let's throw some dates up in the air: Last Sat in March, First Sat in April...taking into account school too. I have a term paper due the day before April Break.



#75080 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 03 March 2006 - 09:58 PM in Nerf Wars

OMC's clan will be the oldest by at least 5 years? Mine is mostly 17, juniors in high school.

11-6:30 sounds fine, perhaps a lunch break around 1 or 2? For those driving up, there is room to park right at one of the entrances, at the end of Lakeview Ave. The town maintains a small composting facility next to the park on the east bank of the brook, and it is actually in bounds for reasons you will find out later...

I'll float March 25th around with my friends tomorrow, so far it looks good. April Fools' Day could be the backup date. Hopefully it warms up by the 25th...we have snow on the ground now. B)

UPDATE: Would you mind a date change to the 1st of April, which is also a Saturday? The 25th is not looking good.



#75594 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 08 March 2006 - 09:22 PM in Nerf Wars

Just throwin it out here but could we maybe make this war inside of march?


Hmm...

This weekend: SAT prep course on Sat
Next weekend: 2 Term paper rough drafts due that Monday
Weekend after that: 2 Term paper final drafts due that Monday [over 15 pages each], plus more than half of my clan [which is hosting the war] can't make it
...And that does it for March. So you could have a war earlier than the 1st/2nd, but good luck finding a good host and such a nice place to fight. We here will be busy with heavy school-related work.

If anyone living nearby wants to scout out the place in advance, feel free to do so. I myself need to do so to make some plans, and set the boundaries for the war. I don't think using the whole thing would be that great of an idea, but also think the normal boundaries are too small for a war this big.



#75522 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 07 March 2006 - 09:45 PM in Nerf Wars

Space to park is quite limited, so I think the interest here is enough. If you live in the county and could get dropped off instead of parking, that would help a lot.

Sweet, is long as the prices are reasonable, at least I'll be buying, and probably multiple guns.

Official date = Saturday and/or Sunday, April 1st and/or 2nd. 11 AM- ~5PM would work best, A-to work around evening conflicts in schedule and B-it starts to get dark earlier in forests. And a Nerf fight is no fun in the dark because you will lose just about every dart you fire.



#75786 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 10 March 2006 - 09:14 PM in Nerf Wars

How about a huge sale right before the war at the war? Instead of online offers, I think it would be better to make offers at the war-
A: Fairer if you have to buy there and can't stake a claim in advance.
B: Able to test the guns/see them in person.

I have already informed members of my clan about bringing plenty of money to this event. :blink:

Duxburian- Yeah, we're definately having a war sunday, 2 o'clock at that Wilde place, lemme know if you can come.


I'm assuming that it is that huge duck pond-trail-park-thingy, being the most notable parkland area in Glen Rock, but correct me if I'm wrong. A few of us may be able to show up, perhaps 3-5 people. Mind us bringing homemades and/or a cannon?



#75892 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 12 March 2006 - 11:48 AM in Nerf Wars

Is the war still on [It's been raining for the past few hours]? Just making sure.



#75228 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 05 March 2006 - 11:37 AM in Nerf Wars

I would suggest bringing your own food...although there is a Burger King nearby. April 1st would be much better, as 3 people I talked to can't make the 25th [and I kind of need those people if our clan is to have any chance of winning :lol: ].

I think theyellowdartmti also plans on attending and bringing his clan.

As for what technology is allowed, so far we have:

Modded guns = yes
Stefans = yes
Homemades = yes

One question I have regarding Tech, my clan has pneumatic cannons, which we would either try and use a pool noodle as a giant dart, or fill the barrel with stefans, creating a riot blast. Any objections to using said cannons? [Because I know that safety is an issue with stuff like this, although we are very responsible with when and when not to shoot them].

Posted Image



#75244 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 05 March 2006 - 01:31 PM in Nerf Wars

Directions and Maps

General Area/Major Roads


A lot more specific

Even more specific

See the end of Lakewiew Dr? That's where to park. The whole wooded area thing is the battlefield.

Where to meet/park

Sorry that I couldn't get written directions, it won't let me enter a general starting location such as "Route 208" or Bergen County." If you want, I could write directions from major local roads myself.

Another edit: We could do a 2 day war if at least some people live in the county/region and can easily come back the next day. As for eye protection, anything will do. I wear glasses, so I normally don't need anything extra [I've been hit in the glasses with clay, water, and basketballs over the years, and they have yet to break]. I don't think the village police will mind us being there, or even know for that matter, but in case of trouble, I have 2 backup sites in mind. We have had a million water gun fights in this forest and no one has ever cared, so it should be the same for a Nerf war.



#75552 Nerf In Northern New Jersey?

Posted by DX-Robert on 08 March 2006 - 02:56 PM in Nerf Wars

Anyway, it should be cool and I look forward to meeting you guys. Oh yeah, Duxburian, you're gonna see some "advanced tactics" yourself. 2 of our guys are milistic freaks so I look forward to this  And we may have a war this sunday (at that Wilde Memorial park in Glen Rock) if you guys care to drop in that's cool.


I look forward to the challenge! It's been a long time since we've had competition in the tactics department. Despite the fact that some of our members have never actually fought a Nerf war before, our water war experience will make up for that. [The tactics are similar] As for weaponry, your better variety of guns against our strange tech such as hybrid homemades and artillery should balance each other out.

If you are having a fight at that Glen Rock park this Sunday, a few of us may "drop by." :ph34r:



#182867 Ecno - October 11 - Coplay, Pennsylvania

Posted by DX-Robert on 10 October 2008 - 07:57 PM in Nerf Wars

I'm still waiting for Keef to reply...is Texansharpshooter still coming?



#176546 Ecno - October 11 - Coplay, Pennsylvania

Posted by DX-Robert on 11 September 2008 - 01:26 AM in Nerf Wars

So far I would be available. I could probably get to Bergen County on my own, then hitching a ride from there would make it workable.

So put me as a maybe for now.

As a sidenote, what do you think about a Maximizer? Legal for a war of this size? It's not exactly a standard gun, but it's also not as overpowered as something like a doomsayer. Mine doesn't even have brass :( .



#178919 Ecno - October 11 - Coplay, Pennsylvania

Posted by DX-Robert on 22 September 2008 - 08:02 PM in Nerf Wars

If I can join a carpool from Bergen County, then I am 90% sure of attendance, just have to clear the final details.

Rambo, I'm surprised that you've never fought a Maximizer...is it that rare of a gun? I didn't do much to mod it other than saw the end of the AR off, if you can call it that, and then put a reducer, coupler, and CPVC barrel on it. I'm not quite sure of the range, looks to be about 80-90, but varies depending on the dart. It shouldn't draw any blood, I used it before in a round at New York. Given the general inaccuracy at long ranges and slower ROF than a maxshot due to the kinda fragile cocking handle, I think it's fairly well balanced.



#182882 Ecno - October 11 - Coplay, Pennsylvania

Posted by DX-Robert on 10 October 2008 - 08:57 PM in Nerf Wars

Thanks to Keef, I can now confirm! 100% chance of me showing up now, cya tomorrow. [Remember, no-shows will be head-hunted at a future war :) ]